Awareness of homelessness may be highlighted this week, but it's happening every day.
In this episode, La Manda and Barry unpack some of the tough questions surrounding homelessness, why there is not a one size fits all answer to solve it, and how we all have a part to play.
It's a beautiful mess when you seek to truly help those in need, but every person has value and is worth pursuing!
To learn more about TRM Ministries: Click Here!
To support TRM, Click Here!
Awareness of homelessness may be highlighted this week, but it's happening every day.
In this episode, La Manda and Barry unpack some of the tough questions surrounding homelessness, why there is not a one size fits all answer to solve it, and how we all have a part to play.
It's a beautiful mess when you seek to truly help those in need, but every person has value and is worth pursuing!
To learn more about TRM Ministries: Click Here!
To support TRM, Click Here!
Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day and your blessings and provisions. God, thank you for this time, for this podcast and for all our amazing listeners. God pray your blessing over them and Lord just bless this conversation in your holy, precious name. We pray Amen. Hello everybody.
Speaker 2:You're listening to Our Community, our mission, a podcast of the Topeka Rescue Mission. This is your host, barry Fiecker, on Wednesday, november 15th of 2023. This is podcast number 198. Good afternoon, lamanne of Royals. Hello, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, you know. Again it's an afternoon. We're always a little, the day is rolled and we've been rolled over.
Speaker 2:And so it moves forward, and it's not quite as crisp as the morning ones are, but anyway, that said, we're going to talk about an important week that Topeka Rescue Mission is involved in, as well as the whole nation. But first of all, what we like to do is we like to talk about those other things that this day represents nationally. And I understand you did this last week.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:And this is what was that experience like. It's national clean out your refrigerator date. Yeah, was that good, was that a good?
Speaker 1:experience, you know, there is nothing that makes me feel more like an adult than cleaning out my refrigerator. And on one hand, I'm grossed out because there's always something. There's always something that needs to be cleaned up. And then I'm like who spilled this and didn't clean it up when they spilled it, and all of that. But anyways, I'm thankful to.
Speaker 2:Some people clean out the refrigerator on national, clean out your refrigerator by throwing stuff in the trash and other people to eat everything that's in there. So which did you do?
Speaker 1:Well, it was a mixture.
Speaker 2:A mixture.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, my girls were helping me and so I tried to throw something away and they'd say, no, I'm going to eat that, you know, especially if it was chocolate or candy related, so interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, thanksgiving's right around the corner, and then right around the corner from that is Christmas, and things are still moving forward with plans for Christmas and still needs for finances, as well as Christmas gifts. Yes, what do we need?
Speaker 1:as far as you know, yeah, and you know, the other thing that I was going to mention is our website trmonlineorg is such a powerful resource because sometimes we're even updating those needs list weekly, because they change based on donations that we're getting in, and, historically, some of the things that are really tough to get are gifts and things for teens. I think it's just easier and we gravitate more towards buying younger age toys for both boys and girls, and then when it gets to the teens, it's a little bit harder. But you know, there's a lot of gadgets out there and certain books and things like that that teens are interested in, and so we need that. We also are always in need of food, because, in addition to helping provide Christmas gifts and things like that, we also try to do some type of holiday box like dinner box for them as well, and so sometimes that consists of turkeys or hands chickens. We also try to put in brownie mixes, cake mixes, things like that, so that they can have a dessert as well. So all of those things and even more specific items are all online.
Speaker 1:This time of year also brings forth a change. We go back to normal either at the end of December or January, but right now we're only accepting new items. So that's different, because all year long at the distribution center we accept used and all of that. But right now, just due to the magnitude of how many we serve at Christmas time, we kind of have to just only accept new that's going to be used for Christmas gifts.
Speaker 2:And you know, at that time of year just do something a little extra special. People are getting helped every day of the year, but that's something extra special at Christmas time to celebrate a very special time of the year with the birth of Christ and the hope and the joy that that brings. And then just Christmas is kind of pretty almost universal. It's just a time that we do something special and so people get a chance to donate those new items. The list on the website explains those items of how you can participate in that. Also, finances can be given towards Christmas. And then also something that you know is important to mention is that year in giving right now can start for people who want to invest in Topeka Rescue Mission, not only to end the year well financially with so many things. That doesn't, and if you don't know what it does, go to trmonlineorg. That's a pretty massive website.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:I know one new pastor that came into Topeka a few years ago that had been on the website for 20 hours studying to understand what homelessness and Topeka Rescue Mission was about, and when I sat down with her and visited with her I said you've been to our website, haven't you? She goes, oh yeah, a lot, and so people can find out the impact that they're giving will have, if they've already given or want to give again. For a year in, and also getting ready for what is probably going to be a very, very important year next year, in 2024, to address the issue of homelessness in even a more progressive way, and that's what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2:So you go to trmonline trmonlineorg I say that so fast. Sometimes people go, what was that? And that's the website of Topeka Rescue Mission. Well, amanda, this is a special week of recognition, but it's all so kind of like wow, why do we just say this once a week? It's National Homeless Awareness Week. Homelessness used to be recognized, maybe annually for a day or a week, but now it's recognized almost every day throughout the nation. It's really become enormous in our conversations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a very common conversation that you know. I don't think it's just only happening on the political level or the nonprofit level, the business level. I think a lot of just the common conversations are happening in each household too. People just driving around town are noticing more people that appear to be experiencing homelessness, and I think you know just some of the ramifications coming out of COVID, the financial challenges and some of the rental assistance and protections that were out there during that, and that's changed, and so we're seeing more people losing housing, and so it's not just that it's more visible, it's that it's also tapping into some of the people who have never had the struggles before, and so there's just it's so involved.
Speaker 1:So if you see the things on TV or social media or in the news, you've got a lot of governments talking about it, trying to figure out what is their role, what is not their role. You've got a lot of nonprofits that are nationally doing great things, local nonprofits that are doing their part for their community. You've got business owners on both ends. You've got business owners who are concerned because homelessness they feel is negatively impacting their business, and then we've got some businesses who are very empathetic and want to help and they're trying to figure out what is this. We know we have this, but what is our role in this? And so, yeah, I think it's something that's being discussed all of the time and definitely not just something that's in our world here at TRM.
Speaker 2:There's definitely more observable homeless now, more places where camps are. I think in the area of Topeka pretty much everybody could say we didn't used to see it like we do now, even in small communities. I was in a small community of about 14,000 people last weekend in East Central Kansas. As soon as I came into the town I saw homeless people with all their belongings right there in that small little town.
Speaker 2:I talked to some of the people that live there and I said what's your situation with homeless? And they go, well, we've got a camp of 30 people over here under a bridge and some more. And I said what services do you have in this little small town? They said absolutely none. We're just too small and we're having more and more people struggling to actually be able to live and afford their rent here in that small little community. So it's not just the larger urban settings. We used to think of homelessness at Skid Row in Los Angeles or New York City and then we began to realize Chicago, Kansas City and Topeka and Lawrence and Manhattan, and now it's broad brushed across the entire nation. What is your understanding, amanda, of the why? Why has this happened? And I know that there's no one answer to that, but what are some of the contributing factors why we not only see more homeless individuals, but there are more homeless individuals?
Speaker 1:I think the answer to that is there's not one answer to that, and I think that that's what we need to start talking more of, but we shy away from that. What I mean by that is homelessness is sometimes something that we wish we could just group all together. We could say let's just say we're going to call it a problem, which I don't. Let's say we do, and we say we've got a problem of homelessness, we try to group it in that. Then we as societies try to then say well, what's going to be our solution to that? The problem's homelessness and we need a solution. What happens is, especially if you haven't done this work and you don't do it day in and day out, like you have for 40 years, barry.
Speaker 2:Thank you for your money.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, more than I've been alive. But then what you realize is so then, when you start diving into the quote, unquote, quote problem, you realize, oh, there's a lot of layers within this, and so then that one solution that you may have thought of oh, it's all this or it's this, you realize no, it's not so perfect. Example I have talked with people on the streets. I have talked with guests in our shelter. I have talked to individuals that access the mobile access partnership. I've talked to people who went straight from the streets to an apartment. Two different groups did that, and so they're people.
Speaker 1:And what's incredible about it is are there some commonalities? Yes, hardships, whether the hardship started out as financial, or the hardship started out as a physical ailment, or the hardship started out as an issue with grief, like maybe a death of a loved one or a loss or a divorce, something like that. Something was severed and grief started and it was untreated. But there are commonalities like that. But everyone's story is so different and that's why I think it gets so complex.
Speaker 1:I just spoke to a woman two weeks ago and, barry, it humbled me so much it does every time when people will just tell me their story. You know Maryam has mentioned that before just the vulnerability that some of the people have and this woman's story. She's in her 70s, married for 50 years. Husband passes away the next day. One of the appliances in her house goes out. A week later, another appliance goes out. A week later she's hospitalized. Within 30 to 45 days she not only loses her husband of 50 years, her house literally starts falling down. She's not physically able to keep up with it because that's what her husband did, and so she finds herself at the Tobika rescue mission.
Speaker 2:Married for 50 years.
Speaker 1:Married for 50 years.
Speaker 2:Housed Housed. Husband dies medical issues. Appliances break down. She can't live where she lives anymore.
Speaker 1:Correct, had a vehicle, so she's at the rescue mission and still trying to get on her feet and all of that has a car. Car breaks down. It's the only car she has, so now she doesn't have the income to pay the car to get it fixed. And so I share that, because a lot of times there is this perception out here that that is the minority of the stories, and even when it's not popular and even when people sometimes want to mute me, I continue to tell that, because there are more stories like that than just the person who says I've just always lived like this and I like it.
Speaker 2:What do you say to people and I've had this twice in less than a week people that I've talked to say say we're no, you've been involved with the mission, and so on and so forth. One was a community leader, the other was a laborer. Both had the same thing. We don't believe they really want help. The unsheltered really don't want help. What do you say to that?
Speaker 1:I try to explain again the caution we should have when we group or label a thing right. It's kind of like when somebody wants to say all police officers are bad or all doctors are bad or all. We've got to be really cautious about saying that. So usually I respond by saying something like that. I usually then validate the person and say you're right, some people don't know how to accept help.
Speaker 2:See, there's a little bit difference there. Don't know how to accept forces they want.
Speaker 1:Yes, and if there is someone that appears that they literally are saying I don't want help, there's really a root of a why, and it's usually rooted in they don't know how to ask for help. Maybe it's untrusting, maybe it is a self-worth where they've already given up on themselves and so they don't think they need it, even though people don't necessarily agree with what I'm saying. Barry, no one that I come in any type of interaction with and I'm on the streets almost weekly sit there and say I love using the restroom and a bucket. They don't say I love having all of this trash around me because I don't have access to any type of trash can or public trash service. They don't say that they're not proud of it, it's just not.
Speaker 1:And so one of the things that I realized earlier this year was I did not want it to be mine or TRM's opinion versus public opinion. So when people ask me that question or they make those statements, I needed to be able to not just tell individual stories. Although that's powerful and we have to, I don't ever want to get away from that. I knew I needed some statistics to start doing one or two things backing up what I was trying to advocate for or to prove me wrong so that I could pivot.
Speaker 2:So it's not just an anecdotal story. Correct like qualitative, it is something that you can measure.
Speaker 1:Yes. So we wanted to start having more quantitative data and so we did the first rounds of surveys this summer. We did the second rounds of survey towards the end of August and September. We'll do the third round in January. So to go back to your original one, where the two people made the statement that people don't want help, we asked a series of questions. A couple of those questions involved If our community had access to some type of transitional or tiny home village, would you access it? We have a question on there that says if we had another alternative shelter rather than just our shelter where we have the no drugs and those kinds of policies, would you access it if we had a low barrier option? And then we also ask would you be interested in staying at the mission? And so out of like this, last time, for instance, we surveyed 75 people over three weeks and of the 75, only eight said no to everything. But do you know what? Even of those eight, it wasn't that they wanted none of that. They're on the EAS wait list.
Speaker 2:They've already signed up for housing.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So they want housing. They want housing. It's not that they want to be outdoors.
Speaker 1:Correct, and so that's what we are seeing Now. Do we have people saying, no, they're not going to come to the rescue mission? Yes, and it normally is tied to the rules congregate, shelter, the fact they can't bring their animals, you know those kinds of things. But the stigma out here that we have dozens upon hundreds that are on the streets and they're just choosing this, that's not factual, and so one of the things that I'm going to continue to do is have our outreach teams collect this data. We changed some of the questions.
Speaker 1:The second survey, based on our community meetings that you and I held, we got some great input from community. For instance, we realized on the first survey we had a lot of questions. We had not asked anything about income, if the individuals have income, and so that was recommended, and so we added that to the second survey. So now we can tell who has an income, what type of income. So you know, I just think that are there people who are on the streets and maybe appearing that that's just how they want to be and that they're not wanting to access help? Yes, but there's still a reason why, and it's deeply rooted, and oftentimes you're not going to find out the first, the second or maybe even the third time you talk to them. But when you start really building that relationship and you start connecting it, you realize that their rejection of services or their stance in I don't know how to access help, I don't know what to do, I don't know, that's really a protection barrier that they have built up in order to survive.
Speaker 2:Talk about the self-worth, and you mentioned that that may be one of the reasons that they don't feel like they can access services or say yes to a service.
Speaker 1:Where's the tissues? Okay, they're within reach. This one's a touchy one for me, because I just know how precious life is and no one should go through life not feeling like a valued human being, regardless. If you believe in Christianity, faith anything like that, the value in human connection should be precious to all of us. It's another layer for me because of my faith. Not only has God commanded us to love him and love others, but we see Jesus doing it when he walked the earth. We see him always being with the least of these. From a faith perspective, it goes back to the Amago day. We are made in his image.
Speaker 1:The thought of anyone going through life and feeling like they're so unseen and that they don't matter breaks my heart.
Speaker 1:But a perfect example of this was it's been maybe four weeks ago now our street outreach found out that it was someone on the streets and uncheltered neighbors birthday. One of our outreach advocates, daniel, made her birthday treats and him and Haley went out to celebrate. She was so shocked she couldn't even really remember what her favorites were because she said it had been so long that she didn't even have recollection of the last time someone even acknowledged her birthday. She said she grew up in foster care and was within dozens upon dozens of foster care homes as a child, and now she's a woman. She just learned how birthdays don't matter, and then our team not only goes out there and says we remembered your birthday, but they also go and bring her a birthday treat, and it's something that they made.
Speaker 1:This is a woman who has years upon years upon years of trauma and very low cognitive abilities at times, and just these struggles and not sure how to access everything. And so then, when you pair that with also being told almost your entire life that you don't matter and not having anybody even acknowledge the day that you're born, you finally just quit trying. And we see that time after time after time.
Speaker 2:So is it hard for that person to receive help?
Speaker 1:It is, and I think for a couple of reasons. One, they're afraid of what transaction has to occur. Well, what am I going to have to give in order to receive? Is it going to be sexual? Is it going to be harmful to me? Is it going to be where they act like I matter and then they make fun of me?
Speaker 1:I mean, there's all these different things, but I will tell you that stories like this that are powerful it's not just among women or children of trauma. I will also tell you, the other big group that I see self-worth being an issue with is our vets on the street, and it breaks my heart to know that we have so many people that exit out of the military, aren't connected with proper services, for whatever the case may be, maybe it's even that they don't think they need it. You know, I don't know, there's different reasons, but then you know that they used to live a life as a Marine and then they're now can't buy the river, and those are our people. They are here and they're talking to us and they're telling us a story.
Speaker 2:Help us to be free to judge them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it just tears me up. And so just the sense of value. It's important. And one of the things that I like to challenge people with is when we're talking to ourselves as professionals, educated, whatever the case may be. This is what I challenge people to say Think about how.
Speaker 1:You do not have a job, you're desperate for needing one and you are going to land an interview, but you can only do the interview unbathed, and you've gone two weeks unbathed. How do you think you're going to feel going into that interview? And then you don't have what you need. So you don't have nice interview clothes, you don't have the cologne or the perfume that you're used to, you don't have the hair brushes, you don't have the toothbrushes, all of these things that oftentimes we take for granted. Are you really gonna feel like you're gonna nail that interview? And the answer to that is no. And some people joke with me and they're like, oh my gosh, I wouldn't feel good after a day, right? So there's always someone on the streets first day like that, and then it's a second day, and then it's a third day, and then you match that with not being seen, not being talked to, not being valued, maybe even made fun of all of those and you-.
Speaker 2:Not feeling safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not feeling safe. And so you finally just get to a point where you think, oh, I can't do whatever it is. I can't walk into that social security office, I can't walk into that DMV, I can't, I can't, I can't. Just like we would feel as educated, as professionals, those kinds of things. We would feel that same way if our appearances weren't able to be what we're used to them being. And I just try to share those things, to try to put things in into perspective.
Speaker 2:I think we've all seen some resemblance of a puzzle that is maybe an outdoor garden or a building or whatever and say in the caption says find the cat or the dog or the horse in here. And so you strain and you strain and you strain and then you find it and you go yeah, it's always been there, if you can find it. Of course there's some tests that say your IQ is gonna be really smart if you can find this in 10 seconds or whatever. I never get those that fast.
Speaker 1:Poor Barry, I know.
Speaker 2:There's a saying that says the eyes cannot see what the mind does not understand or comprehend. We have to understand a thing and comprehend a thing before our eyes are gonna be able to see it accurately. And so when we see an individual like you described, or we see trash or the homeless camps or whatever, that doesn't mean that we necessarily are seeing what we're seeing, because we don't necessarily understand what's deeper inside that. The question is, do we wanna know and do we wanna understand? And so you've kind of unpacked some of the person the self-worth issues, the versus helps and don't want help or don't know how to ask for help and you've unpacked that. So if I don't really, as a community member or whatever, I don't really know if I wanna take time to invest in the person, what's the value of investing at all to community about solutions towards this growing escalation of people that are identified as homeless?
Speaker 1:I think it really goes back to what your yes can be. So, for instance, I know a lot of people right now who they might physically not be able to do anything, and so they want to do the right thing by either giving financially, or they want to be prayer warriors, or they want to do cards. They want to do those kinds of things. And then I have some people and I love their honesty who say this just isn't a passion of mine, but it's impacting our community and we need to do something. What are some things that we can do? And so that's when we talk to them about well, do you agree with the food drive, do you agree with those kinds of things? And sometimes people are saying yes and some people are saying no.
Speaker 1:I think the tricky part for me, barry and I'm not really sure how to word it is the individuals who don't want to see, they don't want to understand, but they want to speak.
Speaker 1:And that's a challenge for me, because if we don't want to truly see the whole picture, and then you don't have a desire to understand what this picture means, but yet you want to speak on it all the time and probably what's coming out of your mouth is pretty negative and not really helpful to the community or the individual.
Speaker 1:That's where I struggle, because I want to say get in the game somehow, somehow and at least if you don't want to see it privately try to understand it. If you see it and you're nervous about where to start and you want to learn more about it, come to TRM, send me an email, let's have lunch, let's grab coffee, let's do that, or let's be able to have crucial conversations where, if you are full of negative feelings towards homelessness whether it's the people, the trash, if you think we're pouring too many resources into it, whatever the case may be let's turn that negative talk into crucial conversations for change, and I'm all about that as well. What challenges me is when I feel like people don't want to see it, they don't want to understand it, but they want to speak about it, and that's when I think it's very dangerous, because false things get spread, we're not really collaborating, we're not really coming together as a unified community, and that is when you see things fall apart, and so that's where I struggle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a well said. It's a great struggle, because apathy or inaction has one result. Misdirected action based upon assumptions or wrong feelings or whatever, also has an action, and neither one of those solve a thing. And so I think generally people would love for there to be the golden bullet or the silver bullet. I guess that is that will solve the problem, and it's a little bit more complicated than that, say the least. That had been solved a long time ago. So for people who maybe are driven by compassion, the heart, the person they see beyond trash or they see beyond smell or they see beyond maybe even action.
Speaker 2:sometimes they want a solution to this. They don't want to see more humanitarian suffering For people who really aren't there. Yet there's still cost. A community conscious of who we are about as a community, do we really have a way of looking the other way or disjudging this? Is that what our community is? And if we have that, there's a cost to our community who's we are as neighbors? There's health, there's safety, there's financial.
Speaker 2:We've talked about this before is that national statistics have said the average cost for one unsheltered, chronically homeless person living in our communities costing the community about $36,000 a year for that one person. And that's the younger population. As they get older, that cost goes up because of health concerns and that cost can go all the way to $175,000 a year. And so we're talking about millions of dollars right here in Topeka, kansas, to do nothing, do the wrong things, possibly incarcerate people, and then repeat the cycle over and over again. And so with those and if nobody cares about that, the financial impact of it, then you're very, very wealthy and you just don't care, but that impacts all of us. So it's either spiritual, emotional, moral, humanitarian, community conscious, community health safety or financial costs. There's something for all of us to understand the accuracy, not just the feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like we all have a part in this. It's just finding out what your part is. And I just feel really strongly in my spirit and this is gonna sound kind of comical when I say it but I don't think any of our roles is just to complain Like that's not how we are.
Speaker 2:That's an easy way to do it, though. If I can complain and find fault with you, I don't have to do anything Right and so and-. But that's not nice, that's not nice.
Speaker 1:I need everybody to be nice. That's a nice way of saying they ain't nice. It is.
Speaker 2:But it's distracting and it's just like crime. We have an all-time high number of homicides in the peak of Kansas. We get mad all day about that, but then solve a thing. We can judge police officers, we can judge neighborhoods. We can judge gang members, we can judge whatever. It doesn't solve anything. You and I were sitting in a meeting with some community leaders the other day and one of them said that you know, people are not feeling as kind towards the homeless as they used to. Part of that is because of Zoe and her tragic death in a homeless camp, which we all are motivated by. That all torn up about that and we should be.
Speaker 2:But many people are saying, okay, homeless are bad people. What do you say to that generalization of this innocent little child, five years old, who lost her life? It didn't start in a homeless camp, it started before that in a home. People were pointing fingers at everybody and there needs to be a valuation of what was done well and was not done well and accountability, yes, but to categorize a people group because she was in a homeless camp. What do you say to that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that has been so challenging. My first thing that I always respond is I want to respect her legacy that even in just such a short amount of time, everyone I did not have the blessing of knowing her, but just the different interviews and stuff that have been talked about talk about what a precious, precious child she was, and so I think that's what is most important is to just remember how special she was and just how she was made and how she was precious. As far as just how this has kind of turned some negative thoughts and feelings towards homelessness, there's a lot of facts out there that I don't think we all know is the general public. So I think we have to be cautious about that. I usually caution people.
Speaker 1:But then the third thing when it kind of goes back to the grouping, it's kind of like when we started this, I usually try to say, if you don't mind me to ask where do you work? They tell me where they work and so I'll say, okay, so would you tell me that everybody at the Tobika Rescue Mission are bad? Well, no, well, why wouldn't you? Why won't you group that way? Well, I mean, some are, but some aren't Same thing. Another big one is law enforcement. When we say, well, all police are this, I think we have to be careful anytime we're saying all, because there's always something that is different about that word all. And so do we have some people who are Experiencing homelessness, that commit crimes absolutely, and is that okay?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. Some that aren't homeless, committing crimes, correct.
Speaker 1:But we also have some people experiencing homelessness that have never committed a crime, that's right and we have people who own 2,000 square foot houses, mm-hmm, that have a criminal background and are continuing in criminal activity, just like we have people that are on the streets who have never been in criminal activity yet. They're unsheltered. So it's really important that we do not stereotype, and especially if the stereotype is coming because of our own Bias and misinformation, which goes back to the what are you willing to do? Are you willing to see? Are you willing to understand, or are you just speaking? And so I don't Condone any type of bad behavior from anyone, but I don't isolate that to people on the streets.
Speaker 1:Barry, I don't think that Professionals, business owners, educators, I don't think anybody should do crime. I don't think anyone should harm someone. That's my expectations of us being kind are same across the board, and so you know our city officials. We can't go and say all of our city officials are politicians, right, that's cautious. So these groupings, we don't want to do that. It's the same thing we need to be cautious about doing it with gender, doing it with races, doing it with ethnicities, doing it with religions, any time we're putting the word all in there. We've really got to be conscientious about that, because it's not accurate and that seems to be the trend.
Speaker 2:We look at what's going on in the Middle East right now in. Israel, and we see what's happening in our own country and there are sides being taken up, and so this Solution, the solution to this or solving this problem, is not going to be done that way. That brings more heartache, more probably in this situation, more poverty, more community Safety issues and so on and so forth. So so, 70 years to be caresh commissions been been involved here.
Speaker 2:You've been the director for about a year and a half a little longer than that now, obviously on one hand, that was like 25 years, on the other hand, wait a 36 year mark, you're gonna think 360,000, no, no, it's been good, it goes fast, but the same time you know, I've seen this in the role that I had was a lot of ebb and flow.
Speaker 2:I've never seen it quite like it is now. In regards to the complications of this issue, we really don't understand as a nation why we have more people experiencing homelessness right now, other than COVID really changed the game, and we don't really understand exactly what that means. About system changes, resource changes. We've seen the escalation of the cost of affordable housing, the cost of food, the cost of transportation, the cost of health care, and the list goes on. We've seen the challenge of disposable income, in other words, people being able to give, and and very much of a confusing time. Okay, all that said, we don't know exactly all the cause, but we know if we look deeper into the issue, we're gonna see people there and see people that probably are very much like us, if we look deep enough. Mm-hmm. And so, as complicated as it is, it is and this is the the ten billion dollar question Mm-hmm. What do we do? What's the solution here?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm is the one. If not, why not? If there is, what is it?
Speaker 1:I think my first response to that is what we can't do is not do anything, and there's a lot of people that really just kind of want to turn a blind eye and be like, well, maybe it's gonna phase out.
Speaker 2:What about we just criminalize it? Well, in other words, make it illegal and if you're gonna be homeless, you Are gonna be arrested or find or whatever and I think the caution with that is there's a lot of unintended consequences that are gonna come with that as well.
Speaker 1:So I think you know any Any strategy that we go to look at. We need to be evaluating where's our community currently at Right. We need to be looking at what do we offer, what do we not offer. We need to be looking at what should be our community priorities in order to Help lessen upstream people falling into homelessness. It's all another subject. Here it is. And then what are also our reactive approaches once people are in homelessness, what do we do?
Speaker 1:So I think that first piece is we've got to look at our community. What do we do? What do we not do? Second thing is I think we have to, whatever we decide, it cannot be a knee-jerk reaction. Oftentimes, when we do ordinances do we see it community after community after community. If there is not Thought-out, planning and rollout for it, it really comes back to not only hurt the end sheltered, it hurts businesses, it hurts neighborhoods, it hurts really everybody involved. Because what happens is you force people into a different type of trauma mode, a different type of survival mode and no place for them to go. And when we're already in a time of our world, from East Coast to West Coast, where the access to affordable housing is Very low, it's it's hard to then say let's go ahead and criminalize Because we don't have the proper options.
Speaker 2:So is that the answer? More affordable housing?
Speaker 1:I think that's a component of it, but then my pushback on that to people is okay. So let's take Amanda. Amanda has depression. Amanda has anxiety. Amanda has a Right leg that was previously bloke broken and it didn't heal back. Um, Amanda was molested as a child and never had an opportunity to have healing or therapy. If I give Amanda a key and I say here is your apartment, Amanda is not going to last in that apartment.
Speaker 2:I'm not.
Speaker 1:Amanda doesn't know how to physically take care of herself. Amanda doesn't know mentally or emotionally how to take care of herself. Mm-hmm, amanda could potentially continue to be a victim because she thought the Melastation was right. Amanda could get go from being victim mode to predator Because she's now going to treat people how she's been treated and there's no network, there's no community, there's no. Hey, let let us walk alongside and help you do life so that you can get acclimated.
Speaker 2:So it's not just about a roof over your head, although that's extremely important. It's about the person under the roof. Correct, yeah?
Speaker 1:and what all is happening with that, and so that's why you know it's, it's a big deal. You, it's almost like you have to fall in love with this in Order to really be a game changer in this or somebody falls in love with somebody else doing it. Yes, it says I'm gonna rally behind you while you're doing it.
Speaker 2:You know but everybody is Gured to do this. Yeah, it's complicated, it's heartbreaking, it is dangerous. Yes, it is everything but pretty. Yeah yeah, I was asked many years ago by a media outlet what do you want us to report on in regards to this homeless issue, because it's so complex. I said well, here's what I don't want you to report on a hallmark version of homelessness.
Speaker 1:You might do?
Speaker 2:that at Christmas make it all warm and fuzzy, but it's not warm and it's ugly, it's broken, it's sad, it is heart-wrenching. But that doesn't excuse the fact that we either do something we don't.
Speaker 1:My phrase has been it's a beautiful mess.
Speaker 1:So people say house TRM, it's a beautiful mess you know, and it really is, because we see so much beauty in the midst of messes and we I mean it's 24, 7, 7 days a week, right Whether that mess is someone's past, whether it's the mess is someone relapsed, whether the mess is let's let's be transparent here the mess is truly a, an incontinence, a mess, a physical thing, right. But then there is beauty, and what I mean in that is All around here, especially if you're involved with TRM, the beauty is you see someone trust, you see someone react differently, meaning One of our staff members might be cussed at and that staff member still gives the water bottle and says you matter. There's beauty in how TRM views things. People messes differently and we try to see the beauty in it all because we recognize that our creator sees beauty in us when we're far from beautiful Because of our own sin and our own struggles.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, there's a lot of messes around here. There's a lot of times I shake my head. There's a lot of times I'm going into encampments and I leave just wishing. I was bringing four of them with me to the shelter, but none of the four was ready to say yet, yes, yet, and and those things hurt and all of that. But then the next day we wake up and we're ready to go back after those four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the unique assignment that people that are called to work in ministry like to pick a rescue mission do. One last kind of view on this being that it's Homeless awareness week, which is again daily now in the United States of. Some people have referred to a National crisis of homelessness. Would you agree to that?
Speaker 1:Well, my, my first question is what's your definition of crisis? Mm-hmm, because what some in LA or Houston or Chicago might deem as a crisis, we would deem as a catastrophe. Or what we're saying is a crisis here. Some people come from those areas to hear and they say, oh, that's nothing, because it's so different. And so that's my first thing usually is well, how can we really define crisis?
Speaker 2:Maybe it's the crisis to the person experiencing homelessness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we never think about it that way and I don't try to say this often, because I just always want to be grateful and things like that. Let's also talk about the crisis that all of our people that are boots on the ground face every day what TPD is seeing, what Vallejo is seeing, what our outreach teams, first responders, the ER rooms I mean all of these different things like Neighborhoods.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so it's everywhere. The second thing I would say to are we facing a crisis, are we not? Is I say? Anytime lives are negatively impacted, we should see it as a crisis. And whether it's that business owner who has worked their tail off and they're scared of whatever the case may be, we should care about that. That should become a priority for us.
Speaker 1:Whether it is the person who is and this happens a lot, we're seeing a lot of this the physical elements in the wheelchair that is driving or riding very unsafe down the road because there's not a sidewalk, that should bother us. Or the people who we're trying to engage with and they're so scared of people they're scared to even come out of a tent. Those are the types of things that I want people digging deeper in. So it's fine. Let's start the conversation with saying are we in a crisis? But let's dig deeper. Let's define crisis, let's define well who all is in it, what all can we do, who all is already trying to do stuff and what have we not done. And let's talk about that collectively and collaboratively and look at it optimistically, saying, man, I want to be a part of doing something different for people, instead of saying, oh, I have to do this, or this is a nuisance, it's a mindset. But as much of it as it is a mindset, it's also where your heart lies.
Speaker 2:You've said in so many different ways. It's going to take a lot of people doing different things that are going to work together collaboratively. There's a naval term when they are in a crisis or a complication, when the enemy is attacking them, all hands on deck, and that's really what it's going to take.
Speaker 2:It's going to take all hands uniquely doing what they are supposed to do, not everybody doing the same thing, covering the entire deck of the ship, which would be our country, our community, our neighborhood, wherever we're planted, to say, ok, what is my role in this, what can I do to be a part of this? Not waiting for somebody else to do something and then judging them when they try to do it, but saying what can I do to be a part of this? And that's complicated, but that's the only way you stay afloat.
Speaker 2:It is, and if we are going to continue to do what we've historically done as a nation in regards to homelessness, it will not get better on its own, it will only get worse. And if nothing else, if we could just remember that person that we're looking at, if we don't see them as they really are right now, it doesn't take too long to see in those eyes and see they are just like us.
Speaker 1:They are. And one of the things I think it's important for us to remember is let's say that there was an endless amount of money which is not the case, but let's say it is and all of that money is poured into low-income housing. So now we have thousands upon thousands upon thousands of low-income housing. It's not going to solve it because of what we gave earlier. Let's say we give no money and we give those endless amounts of money to mental health services. We serve everybody, but then we don't have a housing forum.
Speaker 2:Then they come out of mental health services and they go and then they come out of mental health services and they go.
Speaker 1:Let's say that our community had shelters on every corner but no services. You're just gonna end up needing more shelters, right Like so you've gotta think about. We all need each other. The Topeka Rescue Mission is needed by our community to be a part of this solution. We are not the solution, we're a part of it. We need our friends at Vallejo. We need family service and guidance. We need the hospitals. We need the police department. We need our government. All of that needs to be a part of this, because if we all just do one thing, it's still not gonna work, because it's a system and we've gotta help with the system.
Speaker 2:I love lemon cream pie, but I don't love the lemon without the cream, I know. And the cream may be without the lemon, but not as much with the lemon, and so it really takes the whole recipe to make this thing what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1:It does, it does, and you know that, on one hand, is challenging, I think, anytime you're trying to do partnerships and all of that it can be, but it can also be beautiful and worth it, which is what we see with the Mobile Access Partnership. Absolutely, and you know, none of us do the same work, but we all come together twice a week and serve.
Speaker 2:I think the good news in Topeka, kansas, is that we do. While we have problems here, we do have some things in the right place, go in the right direction, and we can build upon those. And so, lomanda, we could go on.
Speaker 2:You and I could go on a long time talking about this issue and other things, but you know people who are listening to this today. You know you may be very familiar with the homeless issue. You may be even already knew that it was Homeless Awareness Week, but it is on the front of our minds in many different situations throughout our community and if you are one of those who is already part of the recipe, you're part of the all hands on deck. We want to thank you for being a part of that, whether you pray financially, give you donate if you're time, or you actually serve as a staff member in an organization like Topeka Rescue Mission or Vallejo, or our police officers, our firefighters, our first responders, our teachers, and the list goes on and on. Thank you for all doing what you're doing. There's more yet to be done. If we come together and we look at this in a way that we value each person and how much they're worth to God and to us as well.
Speaker 2:If you would like more information about the Topeka Rescue Mission, if you're still exploring, you can go to trmonlineorg. That's trmonlineorg. If you're inspired to help financially or give a gift for Christmas, you can go to the donate button or the Christmas list there. Or, if you'd like to volunteer at Topeka Rescue Mission to maybe join the outreach teams or the Mobile Access Partnership or serve food or help with this Christmas season. You're gonna find a way to do that there. We've asked for your prayers about this issue. There's a lot of discussion going on and big, important decisions that are gonna be happening in the near future, but thank you for whatever role you play, to be a part of the team for those who are depending upon us every single day, those of our neighbors experiencing homelessness. Thank you for listening to our community, our mission. Music.