Listen in to this wonderful interview, as we talk with Brian Cole, Director of the Shawnee County Department of Corrections. Brian shares about his personal path into the world of corrections, and it's clear that his heart beats for change and dignity within the system. We discuss the innovative steps to prioritize rehabilitation and the essential role community partnerships play in supporting inmates' reintegration into society. Our discussion illuminates how these programs extend a helping hand beyond the jail walls, ensuring that when inmates step back into the community, they're welcomed with opportunities rather than obstacles.
But the conversation doesn't stop at redemption and second chances. We also tackle the stark realities that Brian and his team face daily, from managing a diverse inmate population to improving mental health services within the confines of a correctional facility. The chapter on compassion and justice in the community offers a candid look into the balance of justice and reconciliation, and the shared responsibilities in working with marginalized populations. Brian's unwavering commitment shines as a beacon of hope.
To learn more about TRM Ministries: Click Here!
To support TRM, Click Here!
Listen in to this wonderful interview, as we talk with Brian Cole, Director of the Shawnee County Department of Corrections. Brian shares about his personal path into the world of corrections, and it's clear that his heart beats for change and dignity within the system. We discuss the innovative steps to prioritize rehabilitation and the essential role community partnerships play in supporting inmates' reintegration into society. Our discussion illuminates how these programs extend a helping hand beyond the jail walls, ensuring that when inmates step back into the community, they're welcomed with opportunities rather than obstacles.
But the conversation doesn't stop at redemption and second chances. We also tackle the stark realities that Brian and his team face daily, from managing a diverse inmate population to improving mental health services within the confines of a correctional facility. The chapter on compassion and justice in the community offers a candid look into the balance of justice and reconciliation, and the shared responsibilities in working with marginalized populations. Brian's unwavering commitment shines as a beacon of hope.
To learn more about TRM Ministries: Click Here!
To support TRM, Click Here!
Heavenly Father. We thank you, lord, for this day and your blessings and your provisions. God, Thank you for this time To record this podcast and Lord, everyone sitting at this table. Lord, I pray your blessing over this discussion and that our listeners would just be blessed and encouraged by it. In your holy name, we pray amen.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody. You're listening to our community, our mission of podcast of the Topeka rescue mission here on Wednesday, march the 6th 2024, podcast number 212. This is Barry Ficker, your host, with Amanda Brauels and Marion Krabel. Good morning usual.
Speaker 1:We have the whole team back today. Yes, we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great to see you guys. See you every day, but it's good to see you today especially.
Speaker 1:It's always good to see us isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is it don't have any special updates today. Yeah, that's that, thank you Updates. Today we have a very special guest, which is an awesome guy.
Speaker 1:Yes, true friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dear friend, but before that, we want to talk about the significance of March the 6th, and so I know that you guys already know the answers, but it's national. We hate this day, we hate this.
Speaker 1:We hate this. I'm pretty sure it's. We hate your questions day.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, yeah, no, no, it's not that. But you know, no, I think yes.
Speaker 3:As Christians, barry, we should only hate sin.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, I think that they're. I'm lifting my feet Because there are some professions probably do represent sin and it's called dentist. It's not a lot of great dentists and if you're listening out there and we've had dentists on our show before- yes, we have a dentist that is a great partner, so he's a good guy.
Speaker 1:He is.
Speaker 2:What he does is hoard. I mean he mouth starts digging around. Pull stuff out, give you things to her.
Speaker 3:You can't talk for the rest of the day any dentist if you're listening, that is. Barry.
Speaker 4:You're saying it all. It is not Amanda or me. Yes, I have a very good.
Speaker 2:I do too, and actually I'm gonna start going to that guy. But anyway, no, you know, when we say the word dentist, we kind of shiver, I mean a little, and even though our dentist we're talking about and others are really good people, very good, but anyway, it is their day, national dentist. Okay, thank you dentist. Business also another national day.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is, and I do happen to love these Uh-huh. Yes, it's national Oreo day, so security for national dentists?
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially the double, double cream thing.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I don't like that, you don't like that. No, no, that's overkill. Uh-huh, very true, you know, very true.
Speaker 2:Not especially I like traditional you know, what they have now is those vanilla Oreo thing. Yeah, those are horrid.
Speaker 1:Really Oreos? Those are just vanilla, cookies.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so snap I'll be national milk day, then right it probably should you know, I often describe myself as a mother Tied to something, as an Oreo. Do you know what it is? And do not say double stuffed.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:I say all the time me as a mom. Trying to clean my house with kids is like brushing my teeth while I'm eating Oreos. That describes motherhood for me right now.
Speaker 2:You need a little more time to yourself that's right. Those two things out in life, because, yeah, I mean, it really messes up the taste of the Oreo with that crest in there. Anyway, okay, enough of that. We have this great guy and he's a personal friend of all of us here. Yes, I think he's one of the most stellar, outstanding people that I've met in my life.
Speaker 3:I really do, I really do.
Speaker 2:Brian Cole, who is the director of the Shawnee County Department of Corrections. Welcome to our community.
Speaker 4:Our mission Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 4:I'm honored to be here to share kind of what we do and to change perceptions on what corrections or our field is about, because, regardless of those who show up to jail, we do care about you and that's, that's a philosophy I have in my leadership and that is Throughout our whole facility. So if you come talk to staff, they're gonna tell you the same thing right, you know.
Speaker 2:I know that to be true because I have known you and a decline before and it's a glitzy before that. And but I would have not Thought that people who work in corrections, whatever the level be, is that they would be people who care much, because now we've got some of society's most difficult people all in one or several Buildings that aren't necessarily the greatest people to be around due to their search, search situations in life. When I was asked to be on one of the community boards years ago, I was sitting down. I was gonna be the speaker for their annual volunteer banquet and as I was talking to some of the staff with Shawnee County Department of Corrections, I walked away with the going that these people do really care. And that was before you were the director.
Speaker 2:Later on you become deputy director under under dick and now you've been the director and and you've carried on and and actually like all next directors do, is you build upon what was there before and even make it better. And I hope so that's what you've been doing. And so, brian, I want to talk about some of that, what you've encountered, what you've done, what you do, but, but talk about your. How'd you get into corrections in the first place? I've been a journey, hadn't it?
Speaker 4:It has been a journey. You know, when I got out of college a long time ago I won't say my age, but it was back in the 80s, you know I had the great opportunity to do my internship with the, the Kansas the state SRS at that time, and it was investigating abuse and neglect cases in our mental health facilities, which we had several throughout Kansas, and I loved it. I did statistics, I got to go on site and I Knew about that because my family had grown up in the leadership roles at Ocewotomy State Hospice. So I had volunteered up there. So I wasn't afraid to go to these facilities. I knew what to expect. But I fell in love with the job to help those who couldn't help themselves, who needed the help. I said that's my ultimate job, that's what I want, and my mentor there, dwayne Bell, had said Brian, before you get started, you need to go over and work at the jail. And he had his son worked at jail, had a lot of former law enforcement work at the jail, and Said you need to go over there, get your feet wet, understand how to write good reports, I understand the philosophy of the criminal justice system. And then after about two or three years, then We've got a spot for you. So I said, okay, so that was my game plan.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, dwayne passed away shortly after I came to the jail and it kind of started changing the state, kind of started changing some different offices and things.
Speaker 4:So I didn't really under understand or know what the Vision was going to be with that working with the SRS and obviously it changed its names. So I said, okay, I've been here, I like what I do and I fell in love with the job and I've been there now almost, you know, right at 35 years. I Love what I do and I do it all again. I'd make tons of different changes and things like that, but I've learned a lot from not only the staff that I work with, but from those who find themselves in jail. There are good people that because of their circumstances and I'm not soft on crime by any means, but I tell people to treat people the way you would want to be treated if you were in a similar situation and unfortunately, a lot of us have seen family members or friends come through the jail and Jails not a nice place and I don't mean that that it's filthy or anything like that, it's just it's not a helping environment, and that's what we've tried to change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when you say it's not a helping environment. That's a little bit different here at Shawnee County. Oh yeah, because I mean, sometimes jail is just locked up, right. Yes, you get, you get three hots in a cot and you serve your time and then you come out. What, what has under your watch, what has Moved in the direction even more so that that's not the way it is here.
Speaker 4:Well, the first step was we became accredited through the American Correctional Association on the juvenile side and that operation Tremendous staff committed to our juvenile offenders.
Speaker 4:That facility is within the top 3% in the total United States of operation. It is a stellar operation. It's not because of me I have the honor to get to be the leader, but I have leaders that are in those jobs. So one of them was to get accredited, to be recognized that we operate under national standards, not about Stories or accolades or a wards, it was let's do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, and so that was. One of them also was we continued our goals of safety, security, but added collaboration in the community to be partnerships to ensure that we operate as a model correction facility, providing programs, but mainly helping those who come to us to be better off when they leave than when they came, and that's been our A very big part of our vision of programs reentry. It's very expensive To have somebody keep coming through the cycle and so we want to make sure that we can break the cycle and and help them.
Speaker 2:Amanda, you check the book in reports frequently to see if there's anyone. You know. The book in reports are People that are booked in to jail registered, so to speak, people that you know who have stayed at TRM, maybe on the streets or whatever. How important it is for you as executive director of the rescue mission to have this kind of relationship with the director of Shawnee.
Speaker 3:County.
Speaker 2:Department of Corrections.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the first word I came to my mind was just priceless, because I feel like we look at the people that we serve as our people, and I know that there are a lot of people that go into the jail who are not homeless, but I also know there's a lot of people that go into the jail who are and, and so I know that once one of our neighbors, for Whatever reason, goes and is now being a part of jail and being served by their team while trying to rehabilitate. My hands are kind of tied because my team can't serve them, but I know they are, and so then what I look at it as, then, when I know that they are out of jail, then that's what our team picks it back up too, whether that is to help Reentry into normal housing, stabilized housing, whether it's Maybe they're still needing to connect with mental health services, maybe it's that we want to connect them with the mobile access partnership, to start engagement, whatever that looks like, and so I don't look at it as an and or it's unfortunately, sometimes it is a system, or it's this continuum of part of their care, whatever lands them into jail, and so I love that I have a direct connect, where I know for a fact that if a neighbor whether it's an unsheltered person experiencing homelessness or someone who is housed ends up in our jail, that that person is not looked at as that they have done something that they can't fix, or that they are looked at as a number on a booking. They're still viewed as a person, and maybe it's a person that made a horrible choice, maybe it's a person who has been a victim so much they've turned into a perpetrator themselves. Whatever the case may be, to know that we have an incredible jail team who is going to, as much as possible, make justice happen, but do it also with dignity and respect, so that that person can also have hope of changing, that's incredible.
Speaker 3:The other thing I think it's important that we realize is a lot of the crimes that are committed or a lot of the reasons why someone ends up in the jail. They're not going to be able to stay there, whether because the charge isn't enough or because it's not necessary or numbers, whatever the case may be, and so we have constantly got to have a people-minded approach to this, because not many of them go to jail and just stay in jail. They're going to be back on the streets. They're going to need to be back into the workforce, they're going to need mental health services, those kinds of things, and so I look at it as a team approach and I know for a fact whatever Brian Cole says is happening in that jail is happening, and I think that he knows whatever I say. We're trying to do with people on the streets. That that's true as well.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure, Brian, that every community can say what Amanda just said. She's talking about a continuum, that the jail isn't just a oh, they're there now and everything stops.
Speaker 4:Exactly Continuum of support and help, oh our success is dependent upon our relationships in the community, and you know, barry, back when you were the leader and now Amanda, that some of the first calls I got was we have a client who's been at the mission, who's found themselves in jail. We still have services and we'd like to still be able to outreach to them. And the answer was absolutely. So please come in, please help us do our job better, because our main thing is safety and security, and it is. But I don't think people understand that when you have somebody from the community that still cares, still shows an inmate that they're valuable, that they have some self-worth, that it helps with safety and security and that we know we're preparing them either until they move on, maybe to prison or get released, or we know that when they get released, we still have a plan in place and that starts prior to anybody coming to jail. If they come here, then it just continues.
Speaker 2:And that disconnect to make it harder for that person to reentry to community, because we're not, we're not communicating and having things which we'll talk about in a minute, about some other things that could be here, but you know, in an oversimplified version, jail is removing someone for society for a period of time, so that they don't continue doing, maybe, what they were doing or certain things that dictate that because they did what they did, they have to then be punished, is what the corrections say. But at the same time, it's not just about punishment here, it's about yep, they did this, the law says this, here's what you've got to do. But you think beyond just punishment, you think beyond just time out. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4:I think that correction serves a lot of different purposes. Some of it is punishment, rehabilitation, deterring, hoping that people see that if this is the, this is the consequence for doing these things, but also it's a. We are the largest agency in Shawnee County and we book in about 10,000 people a year, and so we serve a lot of people in Shawnee County who have made some bad decision, unfortunately some really bad, but that doesn't mean it stops, and so we want to make sure that that while you're here, we're going to treat you fair, and but it goes beyond just you serving your sentence and doing things. We want to find out maybe if there were some reasons why or what led up to those decisions, and if we can provide some assistance, we will. Some people come there and just flat out said I did it and I'm ready to serve, I don't need any services, and we understand that, and we'll take appropriate action if they become combative or something like that. But most people that come to jail aren't like that.
Speaker 4:They want to figure out a way to help them, to stop them, to break the cycle. This is the only life I knew. What is it that I can do different, and I hope we can provide that.
Speaker 2:Marshall Bhandle and we talk about homelessness and who are the homeless. It's not something that we can say in a very short sentence because there's many different contributing factors to homeless, same thing with people who would come to Shawnee County Department of Corrections. Can you give us a general understanding of who comes to Shawnee County, the types of different crimes and maybe the difference between that and Lansing and Leavenworth?
Speaker 4:Well, a lot of people will. First I'll answer the second question. A lot of people think of just jail. Everything is prison. Prisons are much bigger. They're usually typically run by the federal government or the state. Where jails are usually municipal or local run by the county, the stay is much shorter, typically in our facility.
Speaker 4:A lot of inmates that have experienced prison and jail will say the jail is much harder time, meaning there's more lockdowns, there's much more restrictions, things that you can't buy in the commissary like TVs, and that's because a lot of people come to us either under the influence or very psychotic. When somebody goes to prison, a lot of times and I hope I say this right we hope that they are sober and so they don't deal with a lot of that emergency room atmosphere, what we get in the booking area. People come to us combative, under the influence, things like that. So some inmates will say that there's much more freedom in the prison, not an unsafe freedom, just more opportunity because they're there for long periods. I mean years and years. For us the average length of stay is probably 25, 29 days. Majority of people come in. They get out at book in. So you know, we have to look at that.
Speaker 2:So is I just trying to say something and I've never thought of it this way but is the county level jail more like an emergency room? It is for crime. So then you either kind of get fixed up, so to speak In other words, you weren't found guilty, you get released, or you serve your time short amount of time, or you need more long term care, and so then you go to a state or a federal prison, correct, yeah, so you're the front entry, yeah, we're the gatekeeper of the criminal justice system.
Speaker 4:So to speak.
Speaker 3:And one thing that people might not realize and I encourage other, where appropriate, nonprofits or businesses or even just individuals to partner in to help Brian Cole and his team One of the things that our team does is our street outreach team shares the bookings every single day, even on the weekends, and so if it is someone that is an unsheltered neighbor that we know of, or someone that we have a strong relationship with, or even someone we don't, it is shared with our street outreach team and myself. So I know, like we had one today that was booked in, it's an unsheltered neighbor and we have a little bit of a relationship with him. So then the team it's either okay, what's our plan? When was the last time we saw him or her? When was the last time we engage? What's going to be our plan when we see them again? And I'm involved in that so that we can all kind of stay on the same page.
Speaker 3:And it was pretty incredible, because just yesterday there was an individual who was booked in the jail. So we saw the pictures of that, we knew what the charges were, but then we didn't know the person where he went afterwards. And that's not always something that the jail can know either. Right, because that's not their part. So then we've been looking for a couple of days. We had a couple of people send us information on our hotline about this one individual Our team would go out, still couldn't find him.
Speaker 3:But because I was in the loop on all of that, yesterday, as I'm driving through Topeka, there's the individual that I know the jail was concerned about with his safety. We're concerned about with his safety, our street reach team and so then I was able to engage with him. So then I call our street reach director, hailey, I give her the update, I say this is how he is, this is what he's doing, that's you know all of these things. And so I just think sometimes, just looking at what our role is, whether it's an organization or a business like how can we help assist Other entities who are doing things, especially at the magnitude he's doing? I don't expect him, as the director, to let me know Every time someone is booked into that hill who's marked homeless on the sheets. That's not his responsibility. That's something that my organization can seek out so that we're staying informed and then we know how to engage in what to do well, that's, and I'll go a bit further.
Speaker 4:I think it is our responsibility to help our community partners to Understand if they're they're not where you think they are. Us to help you understand that. And when you mentioned that Not knowing what they do afterwards, I want to say yet, because part of my goal is, with the reentry, is to provide caseworkers to at least follow those who were released, at least the next six months, so we can find out are they following their plan? Did you get to where you're supposed to go? Not that I have any legal authority, but sometimes just be able to say look, you didn't. You couldn't go to your meeting with your probation officer, okay, you didn't have transportation. Okay, I now let me start making calls for you Mm-hmm. And that's gonna have to be the next step in our agency and that's what we're hoping we provide.
Speaker 2:Brian, you have individuals that come in that Didn't make an appointment with a probation officer or maybe Failed to appear for a hearing of some kind, and all the way up to those most heinous crimes. How do you manage somebody who basically has never probably been violent in their life, mm-hmm. And someone who came in who maybe have recently murdered someone?
Speaker 4:It's a tough. It's a tough challenge. Part of us at the jail it starts at booking is trying to classification system, of trying to determine when the inmate is right now, both physically and mentally. I have to know that I can deal with the charges, but I want to understand where the person is physically and mentally to figure out Okay, what, what immediate, immediate needs do I have to deal with the person?
Speaker 4:A person who comes in for the first time sometimes is often very scared, doesn't understand, only understands what they see on TV. And I want to remind everybody what you see on TV is not what happens in the jail. You know I've been approached by these 60 days ends and I don't do that because, unfortunately, they glamorize the negativity and it in quite a bit. What bothers me the most is sometimes they embarrass the inmate Getting shackled up or being a use of four. I'm not here to embarrass anybody, but a lot of times those that come in on very violent crimes A lot of times are not very violent while they're in jail.
Speaker 4:We do get some, but a lot of times they're not very violent. And so again it comes down to us Identifying their needs to keep them safe and healthy. We do that in book in appropriate housing to make sure that the other inmates are safe. If I have somebody that's Violent, I have to make sure that first I have to separate adults from juveniles, male from female. I have to do sick from non-sick, violent from nonviolent. And even though I have 700 and some beds, when you become 85% full, you're full. I can't just say okay, just plug this guy in room 5 or a gallon room 5, so it becomes.
Speaker 4:There is an extensive classification system to determine the appropriate housing With physical and mental health needs and medical needs in place to make sure we can get them stabilized. It may be taking them to the emergency room if they've ingested, you know, medications or drugs or they're too Intoxicated. Sometimes there's suicide ideation that we have to deal with. So it is a very, it is much like an emergency room and so we start right there and then, if the inmate happens to be there 72 hours later, then we do another Reclassification for a long-term Housing if they're gonna be here to get them where they need to be, and we have modules that are set up based upon the, the needs of the department safety, security and things like that sounds very much like the rescue mission.
Speaker 2:You never know who's coming, correct. You never know how many are coming, that's right. You try to prepare for worst-case scenarios and be ready all the time and you have to shift population around based upon the kind of six situations you're dealing with, whether it be chronic mental illness, aggression, somebody's high on drugs. You don't get to send them somewhere to get them clean, correct or get them fixed Before they come to jail. You got to take them right where they are, you know the the law is.
Speaker 4:It used to be that that it was different for juveniles, that if a person, if a juvenile, was severely Intoxicated or had mental health problems, we could refuse to take them until they were treated. On the adult side it was we had to take everybody. There has been some recent changes that the jail administration or the jail does not have to accept anybody. If they meet certain health or medical criteria, they just have to be examined. Doesn't mean they have to be cleared by a hospital or anything, they just need to make sure that they were examined. The hospital examines them, then they can come back to the jail and that provides some security and some benefit, tremendous amount of benefit. But at the same time it it overloads emergency rooms and things like which we don't want.
Speaker 4:We don't send a lot to the hospital because we have a health care team on board, but we you never know who you're going to get again. Barry, you were correct. You don't know how many. I mean we may get 10 people in one day. I may go down to a book in on one day and there may be 65. So and we work very close with law enforcement when they do their warrant roundups or their initiatives in the community. The Police department, the sheriff's office they're all very good about same brand. We're going to be doing this opera operation, and so we load up if we expect more people.
Speaker 2:Coming in. You've been doing this long enough to remember when we had state hospitals oh yeah, we still do the ones in Oswald, and we were larnard and I used to work at Topeka State, right yeah, and I did too, so we knew the turf. But those aren't here in Topeka State. It's not here the way that we have a dress. Mental illness has dramatically changed, some for the better, but not all for the better. No, what have you seen in your career now of Working in-state institution, coming to be the director now for these many years? And what has happened inside corrections or in the community with our mental health reforms?
Speaker 4:Well, shawnee County, I do believe, is a leader and we've done some studies that Shawnee County does have a higher per capita Population of those who suffer with mental illness than others communities. I think that in Shawnee County, at you know the beginning of my career, you know, and there is some, I believe, criminalization of the mentally ill, that you know, that you know, because of that they find themselves in, in when you say that criminalization of the mentally ill, find that I typically will have.
Speaker 4:People will say look, you know, if we get them arrested then we can get them to services they need, and I thought that might be the the most foolish way to to operate is that the way you'll get services is if we put you in jail and and because of the Stigma or the mental health condition they're going through, because of that they find themselves in jail. You know, I understand there's victims and I I have the heartfelt passion for victims. I don't want to see any victims suffer and I will tell you there's people with mental health Issues that need to be in jail and I've seen it. But you know law enforcement do not have alternatives. Duke University did a study and this said person was more out more likely to get Psychiatric services in jail than their community.
Speaker 4:Now that is a sad state of affairs, for in a community that the jail is now and de facto, I am the the director of the largest Mental health facility. You know you do have the prisons that have more and, but it's the same with them, sheriffs and chiefs of police and everybody is having a tough time how to manage those who suffer mental illness. There's not enough alternatives prior to jail and there are a lot of old Sayings of well, at least they're in jail, it's safer and they can get the services need. The jail is not a stabilization unit. It is not. They will not get the services ultimately that they need and we have in our when about 16 to 18 percent of a population is the national average. We run about 30 to 40 and at one time in our Journey we were as high as 51 percent of our population was Seriously mentally ill, and that's that also affects the cost per day.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, what's? What's the difference between a regular inmate and somebody who's suffering from chronic mental?
Speaker 4:Are. Usually it's about a hundred to hundred and twenty dollars a day for somebody that comes in that doesn't need a lot of medical services or or a safe or a very Maxim security inmate, things like that. But when you start looking at somebody that comes in with Behavioral health problems, you're looking at three or four times. It's about four hundred dollars a day to do that, and that with medications. We spend about 25 to 30 thousand dollars a month on medications and this is Shawnee County. This is Shawnee County tax payers.
Speaker 4:It is that is very yeah, correctional health care is very expensive.
Speaker 2:So, so not. You're doing a fantastic job, but would you say that maybe we can do this differently and better?
Speaker 4:Oh, absolutely, I would love. You know we do have the largest budget in Shawnee County and I've said this before and I'll say it again that it takes a lot of money to run the jail and it takes a lot of money to run a bad jail. But I would be able, I would love to be able at some point to be able to say look, we need to start getting to the point to where jail is not where we put all of our money and if we continue to have a, the thought process and and I want to say this very respectfully our leaders care about what we do in the community. I truly believe that and they call upon me a lot. But I would love to be able to take a million dollars and divert it somewhere else, knowing that because that need is no longer at the jail. I could put the money somewhere else, but as long as we have what we have In Shawnee County you know we had a unfortunately a record high of violent crime last year.
Speaker 4:We are seeing a Increase in Violent offenders coming to the jail, which is sad, a lot of juvenile offenders, and so there is a need for the jail. I just wish there was More things Better alternatives for law enforcement before they got to jail.
Speaker 2:Brian, with that you we haven't changed the system, no, yet We've been talking about it for a long time that, yes, you are the largest Institutional system for mentally ill in our community. You have some plants and you're gonna be breaking some ground here pretty soon. Talk about that.
Speaker 4:Well, we've been very blessed and I get emotional about this and I try not to be.
Speaker 4:We serve a lot of people that have mental health issues and it's I Get emotional because of the staff that come in every day to make hard decisions to deal with the very challenging population.
Speaker 4:But we have we've made some changes.
Speaker 4:One of those is, as we're working very close with the Kdads and in the state of Kansas to hopefully to break ground on a behavioral health, mental health housing module in Shawnee County.
Speaker 4:Hopefully we'll be able to break ground in June or July of this summer. It will be 70 to 70 by bed facility specializes in those who are in jail that suffer with behavioral health problems, from very from things from anxiety disorders all the way up to psychosis. And hopefully we get, as we work to get the laws changed on competency restoration, that we can save taxpayers money, we can expedite cases, we can get, identify the inmates who are suffering with mental illness quicker, provide them services quicker, and we can do it here. So family can still visit, because if they go to Larnard and do stuff and I don't mean that they can't visit out there, I don't know what their systems are, but I would much rather treat somebody locally that is eligible, so the family can still have some involvement with their loved one sounds like Shawnee County leadership has understood this and is willing to invest as well, absolutely and Kdads is seeing this, that we?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's Swinging the pendulum back the other direction now. Vallejo, here a number of years ago, build a crisis and take a residential facility that Used to be that we would just ship them off to awesome water me if we could, which is very problematic, and so the idea that we can just take care of this with everybody in one type of system and community is not working, and it doesn't work just to put them in jail with the regular population.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know you've you've addressed us. You were recently awarded a warrior of mental health Innovation for your compassion, you and your dad. Oh and a director of a jail given an award about compassion. I Don't know if everybody knows that, but that's you. What did that mean for you and your dad to stand there together and Receive that award you?
Speaker 4:My mom and dad. We are a mental health family and my mom and dad have been my mom's in her 80s and she's still working at Oshawahti State Hospital and my dad still serves in a lot of capacities with behavioral health committees. For the governor, you know, the award itself meant a great deal. It wasn't about me, it was about the work at Shawnee County, the team, that what they do, the compassion they have and I think the philosophy that we've instilled. A leader is only as good as the others will follow and they will. They buy off on our philosophy, and so that's. The award meant a lot to recognize the department of corrections for the work they do and that what we do.
Speaker 4:But to serve right to sit next to my dad, who, to receive the award probably was the most it was one of the biggest things ever. I mean, my dad is done. He is a true warrior with behavioral health. There's not anything he hasn't had his hands on. If I was it when it's my time to hang my hat up, if I can do half of what he's done, I will do a great job to be able to stand there. My mom was in tears. My wife was in tears.
Speaker 3:The man who was in tears.
Speaker 2:I was almost in tears. It was, I hope, somebody had to hold it down.
Speaker 4:My dad he's a tough guy and growing up with the military guy and a person that's worked, you know, the same type of job or the same business for 40, 50 years, very tough, high expectations. But to serve next to him, just to be in the same room to recognize, was a tremendous honor and blessing and I'll always remember that day, Darrell.
Speaker 2:Bock? No, I imagine you will, and it was well-deserved. Brian, you're a pioneer in a lot of different areas. Yes, you've been in the game a long time, but you're also innovatively thinking about things. Talk about what your dreams are for reentry, brian.
Speaker 4:Dixon. Well, right now we're in the process of interviewing for a reentry coordinator, darrell Bock. We have to get that going back and forth. When you start looking at this, what they call a sequential intercept mapping philosophy of looking at the intercepts of where somebody with mental illness falls within the criminal justice system, I think one of the biggest areas in, I will say, with our facility in Shawnee County, in my opinion only, is the reentry. We have to start looking better at the district, brian Dixon.
Speaker 2:Everybody's going to come out. If they don't get transferred to another correctional facility, they're coming right back in the community.
Speaker 4:Darrell Bock, that's right, and they do and they come out. And so I want to equip, I want to start the relationship early while the inmates there, if we can. I mean, some days we don't know if an inmate's getting out, somebody's only there for a day. It's going to be tough for us to start putting a plan together, but we're going to, as soon as possible, start putting a plan together to recognize high areas of risk of reoffending, to try to match them with a mentor, try to match them with services At the very beginning.
Speaker 4:Start, while they're in jail, the relationship with whoever it is on the outside. It'll be with Vallejo for medications. When they leave, you name it, even if it's the hospital because they have medical problems. It could be nursing homes, it could be even the mission, being able to start the relationship early, to start putting that team around them, to start helping them. If it's skills, budget, housing, maybe it even could be legal to help them. Transportation is something to do that before. So when they hit the door, we have a plan in place and obviously it can't just stop that once they leave that we say okay, johnny, you're on your own, go do it. The next part of the phase will be to provide the programs and the case management to follow the inmate when they're out.
Speaker 2:To just provide support I'll give you one backup story on why that is so important. We had an individual that we had been working with who had been a victim of trafficking and because of drug issues that were related, she went Shawnee County jail. She went in pregnant. She was serving enough time that she would have her baby while she was in Shawnee County obviously not in the jail, but they let her out. But she had to go back and that baby went into the care of some volunteers with Topeka Rescue Mission.
Speaker 2:We then, da Taylor, worked out a deal with her to have her either continue to serve her time on the drug related charges or be able to go do a rehab program and restoration home outside of Kansas. And of course she heard about that and said she would do it. Due to the system problem, she was going to get an immediate release on one day, for whatever reason we don't know, and we knew that the trafficker was waiting for her in parking lot for her to be released and we knew we would lose her in the system and she'd give right back in everything. And it was a horrible situation. She was trafficked. However, because of relationship, your most recent deputy director contacted me Eve, who is retiring and she said here's the deal we can't keep her because of here's the time out. I mean, the law says she's going to be released right now and knowing the trafficker was in the parking lot, because we knew the car, we knew the individual I said to Eve.
Speaker 2:I said is there any way you can keep her? She said no, we really can't legally keep her. Now the baby is in my office with some volunteers. We have a vehicle that's ready to go out of state that would be willing to transport, and so I hope I'm not getting anybody in trouble here, but we've found a way to get that person out a different door, back into the community where we were waiting on the backside, got her in the car with baby, took her to the place. She went into this rehab program and ended up getting a scholarship go to college. That was a game changer Because why she could have been right back in her situation. But because of the care, the networking, the kind of professional people that you have, because of your leadership there, we were able to save that life and I'm sure many, many, many more Isn't that?
Speaker 1:pretty cool. Maryam Two lives.
Speaker 2:You saved two lives, absolutely Two lives.
Speaker 1:Because there was a baby there too. Yes, right. And when you think about that baby being separated from that mom if she had gone back into the life, two lives were saved that day.
Speaker 4:I've had, I've done some, you know, interviews at Washburn University and some other television networks in the community that have asked how does the person, how does it disrupt the family when the person, their mom or dad are in jail? Yeah, and I don't know that people and I go back to this I understand that the person is legally arrested, I understand that, but it does impact the family tremendously the mom, the little ones. Where's dad or mom? Yeah, you lose your job. You can imagine some of the impact and you know I used to see it a lot when we had on-site visitation, the little kids coming up and seeing their dad or their mother in jail and it broke your heart when they had to leave and didn't understand why dad still had to stay there. And so it does dramatically impact the family when a caregiver is in jail and we try as much as we can, we've expanded visitations, we do as much as we can, but it has a tremendous impact and I know there's some people in the community say, hey, look, that's not. You know they did something wrong, they're in jail. And I will tell you that I understand they're in jail. I'm just telling you that for any reason. You remove a caregiver, the breadwinner of the family, the one that provides financial support or is paying the rent when they're gone, it impacts the family.
Speaker 4:They become homeless and I had a call the other day that an inmate, his mom, called and said, crying and saying that I will not be. My landlord gave me two more days and my son, who was booked in with a certain amount of money, can he release this money to help me? And I guess I'm the ultimate say and you know typically we don't do that, but I talked it over with my team and he did. She was not evicted and I knew that because I knew who the landlord was and asked him if this was the up and up and it was and I did not want to see that lady being homeless Right and because her son, who was in jail and he knew he was in jail for the, for you know legitimate reasons Legitimate reasons.
Speaker 4:He said I've always supported my mom and I'm here. It's my fault, I need to do something, and I said okay, but I said I'll do it one time and we did it. I knew then that it's safer from being homeless. And because she called us and said you know, the bank called us and we knew it and so it impacts those outside.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know, brian, I think too you have no idea the seed that was planted in that sun because of your caring and compassion for his mom Right. I think sometimes we don't realize the the impact that we have and when we may not see it, we may not see it for years, but at some point he will remember the kindness you showed when you didn't have to.
Speaker 4:I get Christmas cards and thank you cards from ex-offenders. Some people it's like okay, you know what's going on or you know it's nothing. Ever inappropriate. It's because of that. I see a lot of people that have come through the jail and I know a lot of people because I've been there 30 some years. I'll see them in the community. I've never been threatened. I've never been worried about my family. Most of the time they'll say you have a tough job. Thank you for treating me like a human. You didn't treat me like some scum. I was in there for legitimate reasons, but you treated me nice. You treated me fair. You kicked me in the backside when I needed it, but you treated me fair. No, the food wasn't the best, you know the amenities weren't the best, but no Oreos.
Speaker 4:No, no mental lapelos, yeah, lapelos, but most people that I see will say thank you, and just say thank you, for I think the right words, just saying you treated me fairly and you were decent. Yeah, you treated me. You know that it was just because of my circumstances. You didn't label me.
Speaker 2:We wish we didn't have to have jails. We wish we didn't have to have a lot of things in life. We wish we didn't have to have a homeless shelter. But if we're going to have to have them, um, Amanda, what's it like to have a director like Brian?
Speaker 3:I know I'm just sitting over here trying to hold back the tears, hold back the smiles. I'm not sure if I can really put into words. You know, it's very easy in our human nature and just our flesh to judge, especially when it's not us who are in those shoes, right. So it's very easy when it's not us who have committed that crime or it wasn't us that was picked up on a warrant for tickets. You know those kinds of things, because that is our human inclination, is to think that way, is to think in judgment or to um place blame, those kinds of things. But none of that is the approach Christ wants us to take and it's only through him can we find a perfect balance of justice and reconciliation and healing, but correction. And so when I think about what our team here at the rescue mission does every day, it's very similar to what he has described.
Speaker 3:And not that I want the jail to have a negative connotation or a homeless shelter to have a negative connotation, but there are going to be negative opinions, because it shouldn't be this way. Our jail should not be at capacity, our homeless shelter should not have. We had 240 something people stay here last night. It shouldn't be that way. However, we know that we have brokenness. We know whether that brokenness is because of mental illness, whether it's because of addiction, whether it's because of things that have imposed people's thinking and they make a poor choice. Whatever the case may be, we're going to have crime and we're going to have homelessness. Sometimes they intersect and sometimes they have nothing to do with each other, but I respect the fact that, regardless if it has to do with people that are coming in and out of both of our facilities or whether it's not people that we share at all, because not all criminals are homeless and not all homelessness you know, people go and commit crimes, but, regardless if it's people that we intersect with or not, he is and his team are treating people with dignity and people that are sometimes at their lowest, even if they don't realize it, they are still being given a chance to say you can make it different whether you're going to remain locked up or not because of whatever the correction is and punishment.
Speaker 3:However, even then, there can still be hope, there can still be change, there can still be reconciliation, and that's what we look at at the shelter too, and sometimes that's not the popular answer, but I go back to. We cannot react the way our flesh is trained by saying they deserve this or by saying this is what they get, or whatever. We can't put our own very limited perspectives onto people's eternities, and so I'm thankful to call him a partner when it's that we're sharing people or we're knowing where there's opportunities for us, our teams, to work together. But I'm thankful that, even when our paths don't connect, that we have an incredible leader in our community whose ethics are stellar. I know his job is not easy, and yet he has even encouraged me as a new community leader and he can take time out of his day to send me a text when he sees that I'm going through something. I just have the utmost respect for him, and not because he's a yes person and not because he's good at politics.
Speaker 3:It's because no, it is because, regardless of who is in front of him, regardless of what side you're on the cell with, regardless if it is government, nonprofits, faith, whatever Brian Cole is who Brian Cole says he is, and to me that is just so incredibly valuable for our community.
Speaker 4:Well said. Well, I appreciate that. You know I'm not without my faults, I'm not without my challenges. We don't do everything right. But you know, each day I see an officer, william Hopper, and he'll ask me how I'm doing, and we always say this to each other that the Lord put us on a wake up haul list today. So we got up. What are we going to do to make it better for our staff, our community and there? And the thing is, we know we mean it and I had to make some tough choices and decisions in life and sometimes it I always feel like maybe it's not.
Speaker 4:I don't want to see an inmate in isolation, but I know, because of his or her behavior, that's what I have to do to make it safe. Yeah, I can live with those decisions, but I just, you know, I just want to make sure that just because they're in jail, that it doesn't mean that they have to be harmed or treated differently. That's just. Again, I will tell you I'm not soft on crime. If anybody talks to me, I believe in consequences, I. But there's a right way to do it and there has to be a sensitivity to do it, because I can tell you a lot of people will have the some views of being very hard on crime or hard on the jail until they have a loved one that comes into jail.
Speaker 4:Then the whole game changes. Well, brian, what's going on? What are we going to do? How's this going on? They, it changes, and so we impact. I want our community involved in the decisions we have at the jail. I want there to come down. I'll give you a tour, I'll tell you. I've had people from other countries that say, brian, the jail is cleaner than our colleges. Some image will say you know, I get it's nicer here than home. I said I don't want this to be home, let's change, just figure something out. So I'm very lucky, I'm very blessed. I have a tremendous support system around me, a lovely wife and kids, but it's the partnerships and relationships that I truly believe that God is made available to me, and I mean that I would not be where I'm at if it wasn't, if it wasn't for him, and I just I, that's just it, and but. But I'm able to, I feel, do what's right and you know. So we got some things we want to do and I'm going to need everybody's support, and you got my support, thank you, Brian.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being here with us today. I know you got to get to a meeting. I love listening to you and your thoughts and your passion and if we could do a three hour here, I would probably pull it off here. Oh, we could, we could. Yeah, we've done that before, just not a non woman recording. But thank you for being authentic, thank you for being a friend, thank you for being a game changer in our community and, even though you spent a lot of years behind the wheel, you're not done and we need your brother, and we're just so grateful for you.
Speaker 2:So thanks you for being here today.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much. It's been an honor and a blessing.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to our community, our mission. You've heard from Brian Cole, who's the director of the Shawnee County Department of Corrections, a game changer guy in our community, doing a tough job but making a difference for many, many people who find themselves in need. If you would like more information about Topeka Rescue Mission, you can go to trm onlineorg. That's trm onlineorg. Again, thank you for listening to our community, our mission.