Our Community, Our Mission
Our Community, Our Mission
Ep #252 – Rooted in Community: A Conversation with Marc Giffin
In this inspiring episode of Our Community, Our Mission, Pastor Marc Giffin of Rooted Community Church shares his journey of starting a church plant and stepping into a community to serve as "the Church" in action. Marc highlights the importance of answering the call to serve and asking, “What is our assignment?” He challenges us to live out our faith by showing up for others with intentionality, becoming part of the solution to their prayers, and praying with unwavering faith.
Marc also explores what it means to say "Yes" to God daily and reflects on the deep desire to love and serve the community we are planted in. He reminds us that being present and intentional allows us to truly embody the mission of faith—building relationships, meeting needs, and becoming a light to those around us. Tune in for thoughtful insight, encouragement, and a call to live with purpose and faith.
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Dear Heavenly Father. We thank you, lord, for this day and your blessings and provisions. God, thank you for this time again to record this podcast and for all of our faithful listeners. Lord, pray that they would be encouraged today and just blessed by this episode. Lord, we thank you for community partners and God's willingness to be in the trenches and help do the work.
Speaker 2:Father, bless this time. In your holy name we pray Amen. Amen In your holy name, we pray. Amen, yeah Well, what's special about December 18th in regards to life right now?
Speaker 3:Other than it's almost Christmas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, have you ever heard of the 12 days of Christmas I have? We'll divide that by two, that's how many are left so before Christmas, if I did my math right.
Speaker 3:I know it's coming quickly, isn't it?
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of things happening right now, around Christmas, at Topeka Rescue Mission.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. You know, we're delivering gifts to people in the community that we've adopted from the United Ways Christmas Bureau. We're planning parties for the people that are staying with us, as well as the unsheltered neighbors that we have. There's just so much going on. It's a wonderfully busy time.
Speaker 2:I saw cars lined up at the warehouse getting gifts to take to people yes, and just lines of people who are waiting to help out and bless others in the community.
Speaker 3:We've had such a blessing of volunteers, whether it's been helping us put things together, whether it's been helping us decorate the different buildings that we occupy, whether it's then delivering gifts to people, handing out food to people the volunteers have just been amazing this year.
Speaker 2:We've had carolers come.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's just been, it's beautiful. It's a wonderful time of year.
Speaker 2:It really is.
Speaker 3:Even if it looks absolutely nothing like Christmas outside.
Speaker 2:Well, that's okay right now, Is it? I think maybe we'll get made up for later with white stuff and ice and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't want the ice.
Speaker 2:I stuff and ice and all that kind of stuff. Well, I don't want the ice, just the white stuff, All right. Well, anyway, speaking of we're about out of this year of 2024. What is good for people? To know about some of the needs still currently in this year and for next year.
Speaker 3:You know, barry, what we really try to do at the end of each year is to meet our budget, obviously for 2024, year is to meet our budget obviously for 2024, and also to set ourselves up for a strong beginning of 2025 as well. So end of year giving is very important to us, whether it's financial. Financial is kind of what I'm talking about now, but also just having people really consider bringing food to us, bringing all of those things that they donate to us and keeping us in their prayers. You know, each day we walk through the work that we do. We know that we need the Lord walking right beside us.
Speaker 3:And we can feel the prayers of people around us when things get challenging, when we're looking at how do we really help folks that are struggling so significantly, you know, and our numbers are up in our shelters. So we want to make sure that we're doing the best that we possibly can, and we do that because we know there are just so many warriors out there praying for us and, if they are able to give us financial gifts, that's absolutely needed and wanted as well.
Speaker 2:How can people do that?
Speaker 3:They can give online by going to trmonlineorg and clicking the right hand corner which says donate now.
Speaker 2:Pretty easy. It's very easy.
Speaker 3:They can send us checks. We still do take checks we absolutely do, and they can send them to 600, north Kansas, topeka, kansas, 666-08. Exactly, and you know, I never really remember the PO Box, but I think it's PO Box 8350.
Speaker 2:I think so, and it's Topeka, kansas, 666-08. And if you're not sure, you can go to that website and be able to verify that. Yeah, you know, we're known to love all people. We love Czechs and Swedes and Poles, but especially the Czechs. And so, yes, send those checks. I know I got that from a rescue mission director out of Omaha.
Speaker 3:That one was just a bit paid for it was.
Speaker 2:That was Speaking of corny, our research and development department. I know a lot of people. They just tune in to our weekly broadcast of our community, our mission, to hear the most important things about the day that we're in. So again, this is December 18th and, uniquely around the world, it's called Answer the Phone Like Buddy the Elf Day.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Answer. What does that mean, miriam?
Speaker 3:I can't believe that you, if you've never watched the movie Elf, you need to, because it's really very sweet.
Speaker 2:My parents didn't believe in TV. Buddy the Elf. What's your favorite color? What's my favorite color?
Speaker 3:Well, that's how he answers the phone.
Speaker 2:Buddy the Elf, what's your favorite color? I've got to watch this movie, I know. I depend upon the research and development partners to educate me, and they did not educate me on this one, but everybody's giving me a really hard time that I did not know.
Speaker 3:The answer to this. Okay, just going to put that out there.
Speaker 2:Okay, Well, all right, I better watch that then I think I'm having spaghetti real soon. So, anyway, it's Answer the Phone Like Buddy the Elf Day. So watch the movie Elf to know that. And Miriam, probably one of your favorite parts of the research and development department which you supervise over them.
Speaker 3:I hear a terrible buzzing. You hear a?
Speaker 2:buzzing they. They have today is wear a plunger on your head day.
Speaker 3:And I am so glad that you are the one that offered to do that on this very special day.
Speaker 2:I like to go with the day you know to fit in right.
Speaker 3:And so you're going to be wearing the plunger today huh, I have an addendum to this.
Speaker 2:Wear a clean plunger on your head day.
Speaker 3:That would probably be very important. Preferably not used. Yes exactly. Never, ever used.
Speaker 2:Good one, josh, not a clean one, brand new.
Speaker 3:Never used.
Speaker 2:Fresh from the store. Fresh from the store, proven that it's never been used In the wrapper. So anyway, why would we have a day celebrating? Wear a plunger on your head day?
Speaker 3:Mary, I have no idea Other than there must have been a very, very, very slow day for someone.
Speaker 2:Well, actually it says here in the research and development department that it says about this day, there's no good reason why you should wear a plunger on your head. Well then, but they had to have a day to fill something up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:If life wasn't complicated Enough Enough. Now we're complicated Well anyway. So we're just very glad for people who continue to pray and continue to give and continue to volunteer and all those things. And so, as we get ready for all of our organizations in this community to anticipate what's ahead for 2025, that's a good time to finish Topeka Rescue Mission with your prayers and be ready to pray up for the year to come. And so we are blessed by the joining of the executive director of Topeka Rescue Mission, lamanda Broyles. You know, lamanda, they were giving me kind of a hard time a little bit. They called me the late Barry Feaker. Lamanda, you're the late LaManda Broyles because, we've already started this podcast.
Speaker 5:Better late than never, Barry.
Speaker 2:Yep Come on. Kind of pins.
Speaker 3:Kind of pins I know, I bet she was out being an elf.
Speaker 5:I was and I'm.
Speaker 2:Lamanda, where's the plunger?
Speaker 5:Where's the plunger?
Speaker 2:Yeah. By my toilet when plunger on your head day, oh how did I miss that memo? Yeah, that's probably why it came late. Oh, that's so sad, probably, but you really set an example around here.
Speaker 5:I have a couple of plungers at my house, but we clarified, preferably brand new from this story. That's right, you're going to put it on there.
Speaker 5:Do you know I did. I have worn a couple of cups on my head. So back when I was a preschool teacher, you can put solo cups and stack them on your head and then put your hair around it and you're kind of like a who from the Grinch yeah. I think I've seen that, and so I've done that. I used to do that as a preschool teacher and the kids loved it. Just so you have that visual.
Speaker 5:Every now and then you scare us I know I was Cindy Lou who with a little solo cup head.
Speaker 2:Well, if that's your thing, go ahead. Miriam's going to do the plunger thing. Anyway, we need to get to our really awesome guest here today.
Speaker 2:And so we have the lead pastor of a new church in our community by the name of Rooted Community Church Been around about 11 weeks now and that's Mark Giffen. Mark, welcome to our community, our mission, thanks. Good to be here. Yeah, mark, we've kind of talked a little bit about your background before we started here. But you for about 12 years, were the lead worship pastor at Grace Point. And what's a lead pastor at Grace Point in worship? What was that like?
Speaker 4:Well, I don't know, that's my title change a number of times over the years. Most people would probably just recognize it. As you know, worship pastor at Grace when it was good. It took on a lot of different things, but you know, I think most of us that are in American churches these days would probably recognize generally what that means is I'm the guy behind the microphone when music's happening.
Speaker 5:Mostly that's the clearest picture we have With other assigned duties right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, other duties as assigned, that's right With other assigned duties, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, other duties as assigned, that's right Well that's pretty good to run for 12 years as worship pastor at a great church in our community. We've had a pastor here on this podcast a couple of times talking about the wonderful work. And so Rooted Community Church. You're the lead pastor starting this out with the blessing of Grace Point. So, Mark, why another church in our community? What's the reason for that, and how did you know that it was time to make a shift?
Speaker 4:Mark Bailey. Well, how long do you have?
Speaker 2:Days, days and days. Mark.
Speaker 4:Bailey, maybe not that long, mark. Bailey, if only we hadn't wasted so much time talking about plungers on our heads.
Speaker 5:We could have got to the good stuff. Mark Bailey, my friend, we were not that long. If only we hadn't wasted so much time talking about plungers on our heads, so true.
Speaker 4:We could have got to the good stuff.
Speaker 2:My friend, we were not wasting time. We have had more reviews about our R&D department and there's some people that only tune in. It's kind of like when's the bonus thing coming? So we give the bonus up ahead of time. So the rest of this is kind of coasting. So just go ahead and tell us why it's important, it's interesting.
Speaker 4:I've never been into church planting it. I tell people it interested me about. The same as when you're a kid at church on Sunday night and they bring in a missionary from Mozambique and you have to grin and bear it. Right, it's not because it's not important, it's not because it's not good, it's not because it's not life changing, it's not because the Lord isn't doing something amazing there. It's because you're not interested, because it's just not content. That grabs your attention. When you're nine years old, right, so that's what church planting was for me, basically my whole life.
Speaker 4:Until a number of years ago I started hearing these crazy statistics about church plants, or just like new, new works, new expressions of faith, right. So church plants reach people for the gospel at a rate three to four times higher than existing churches do, and that rocked me enough to go. Huh, that's interesting. That's a pretty big difference. It's a huge disparity. So it's, you know, I know a lot of great churches. I came from a great church. I know a lot of great churches are doing really, really great ministry and reaching people for Jesus and doing lots of good stuff.
Speaker 4:But by and large, the church in Topeka not each individual, you know address that we gather in on Sundays, but the church in Topeka by and large isn't growing. It's just not, I mean. So what's that mean? Well, the other statistics that are crazy are, like you know, churches generally grow like 80% with just transferred growth, like they're just seeing people leave one church and go to another and like every church would say that's not our audience, that's not who we're targeting and we're not shooting to just gain people from that church to come to ours. You know we want people to come to Jesus and come to faith in whatever way we can help them do so. So those two things kind of just began to gnaw at me and eat at me and I just began to nod me and eat at me and I went well, maybe we should just plant more churches, not because I don't think there are great churches in Topeka, there are great churches in Topeka.
Speaker 3:I push people to other great churches in.
Speaker 4:Topeka all the time, but I also know that the church in Topeka by and large is not growing. So what that says to me is well, we should try something different.
Speaker 2:Three to four times the growth rate of new people coming in right. Yeah, compared to existing churches.
Speaker 3:What do you think that is?
Speaker 4:The statistics of church plants. The new people coming to church plants is actually something like 60, 62 or some weird percent. Don't fact check me on that.
Speaker 2:Well you could, but you just confirmed that I'm Research and development department Probably right on that thing Next week.
Speaker 4:So existing churches, their growth is 80 transferred growth. A new church is, their growth is 60, not transfer growth. It's new people coming into their churches.
Speaker 4:So interesting smarter people than me need to figure out what that means. But uh, it, at least generically, on the surface, means to me that there's a reason to start something new in my wife and I found this to be true. A lot of people have come to our church who we've known. I've been in Topeka a long time, we've known for a long time, but they didn't come to my previous church, not because we didn't invite them. We invited, I mean, we wanted them to come, but for whatever reason. Once there was something new, they said, hey, can we check that out? And we went where have you been to bring you into this community of faith, whatever expression we were involved in during those seasons of life? But so it's, I mean, in the small sample size we have of 10 or 12 weeks.
Speaker 4:it's bearing itself true mostly, I think that's interesting.
Speaker 2:There's some practical things that we can think about. People may want to check out the new thing, or maybe it's new in your neighborhood, or different people who have decided to shift over maybe bring people in because of relationships, and that you know when you're talking about this. I think sometimes what we're doing in regards to church is we get very comfortable where we are. Not that being comfortable is a bad thing you don't want to be uncomfortable all the time but we tend to want to play it safe and stay in that one place, and sometimes safe is stagnant.
Speaker 2:And I'm kind of wondering about when Jesus talked to the disciples in the book of Acts, in chapter 1, verse 8, when he said that we're to go into all the world and not stay in one spot. Does that resonate at all with you?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's interesting. I think one of the things that, like how that informs how we do ministry is that we didn't look for, I think, what a lot of Americanized churches. And listen, I love the church, I think she's beautiful when she gets it right. I think she is absolutely gorgeous when she gets it right. And there are things the church does all the time that are fantastic and right and there are things that I go, ooh, we probably missed that Right when we stop and evaluate and look back.
Speaker 4:But one of the things we set out to do was we weren't really that interested in finding the best curb appeal with the most drive-by traffic. We were interested in finding community that we could be in. Where we ended up planting you don't drive by it. I lived a block and a half from it for three years of my life, didn't know it existed, didn't even know the building existed. So we just kind of took on this idea that rooted community churches into that, yeah, where our church now gathers. But we just decided, going in, that we weren't really going to.
Speaker 4:I think it works for some churches, maybe at least for a season, this attractional model of let's just be the best production around, let's have the best building around, let's be on the busiest street around. Those are all good. I think there's reasons for churches to need to do those kinds of things, but that's not the assignment of every church. Our church decided we were just going to dive into a neighborhood and just love Um, so, uh, we kind of went more for a let's go to them, then let's then the let's invite them to us, kind of model, uh, and the things that we, you know, we're informed by the Acts Church like all right, let's just be together, let's be in community, in our community, but in community with one another together. Uh, I don't know, it's a different way of thinking.
Speaker 2:It's not as glamorous, which you guys know. All about that. Working here it's all pretty. You mentioned something here. You know, sometimes when we say our church does it this way, your church does it that way, and there can be a tendency to feel like, well, maybe we do it better than you do, or the other guys do it better, but you said not the assignment for every church. There's something in that unique. What is the assignment? Yeah, that may be different than someone else's.
Speaker 4:Yeah, fun fact, the church I came from, which is a great church, love it, love the leadership there, love, I mean. I have only fond things and memories to say. Every day I was there, like it was fantastic. But this old guy, barry Feger, came and talked to us years ago at a staff meeting.
Speaker 5:The late Barry Feger. I think we got to watch out for him.
Speaker 2:Hey, I was here first today.
Speaker 4:That's fair. What are you talking about? So, and I don't I don't know if you remember that conversation, cause for you it was just one of probably lots of these conversations you have with church teams and leadership teams that sort of thing, but for me it's very moving. You actually use the word assignment when we were trying to figure out what our place was to experience our full redemptive potential in this city as a church and we were just sitting around in a little group of six or eight people as a staff just talking and you were there just kind of guiding some conversation for us and you said well, every church and every believer frankly needs to, needs to discern and spend time wrestling with what is your assignment in God's redemptive plan. You may not have used the word redemptive plan, but you very much clearly use the word assignment and that very much pierced me and I've sat with it for now. I don't know. That was probably 10 years ago, I don't know how long ago it's been.
Speaker 2:I remember that because you guys didn't fall asleep when I talked, so it was a good one.
Speaker 4:So I think it's. I think it's relevant for us to wrestle with as churches. I think it's relevant for us to wrestle with as families. I think it's relevant for us to wrestle with as organizations and as individuals. So we just decided well, not decided. I think the Lord decided for us. We discerned that our assignment was to go. That can look really different and you know, I think there's lots of reasons for churches to express themselves.
Speaker 2:Kind of get in the weeds of that. I really appreciate that. I really do believe that sometimes we can go through life as a person who goes to church every single Sunday and sit on the same pew but never really ask God what am I supposed to do? Yeah, I think it's so valuable. I know that the rescue mission this is a big piece of what we're all about here is big piece of what we're all about here is God, what have you assigned us to do? What is the assignment?
Speaker 2:I mean, you know LaManda over here. She was a teacher and a principal and then her assignment at that time was to be those things and then it changed. But she was willing to ask the question what's my assignment? Miriam's the same way, being a director of another social service agency, united Way, and on and on and on. And a lot of people, I think, miss out when they don't ask the Lord because they're afraid. Man, if I ask God, what am I supposed to do? He may send me to Mozambique or something like that. And I know some people who've been to Mozambique and you know, they know they're supposed to be there.
Speaker 4:And I think it's hard to flesh that out, like to say what is my assignment. It's hard to flesh that out, like to say what is my assignment. That can be such a difficult thing to wrestle with, but I've for me, I've clarified it and I've tried to have our church like clarify this for themselves as individuals, with a couple of questions. I've just been asking myself each day I wake up as Lord, what does yes look like today? What does yes look like to you today? You'll present something in front of me that will need a. It requires my obedience. And the other thing that I ask is who do you want me to show up for today? And I think those things begin to provide some clarity. It's a difference.
Speaker 2:So when you ask that question, god. Who do you want me to show up for today? What do you get? What do you hear? Do you hear anything? Your audible voice.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wouldn't that be nice.
Speaker 5:I want you to go see Barry today. Wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker 2:Through the smoke clouds Through the smoke clouds. Wouldn't that be nice? That wasn't me you all.
Speaker 4:You know. I think it's a question you have to continually ask. I mean, you ask it first thing in the morning but you have to continue to like marinate in that right. And I think it's amazing how many opportunities the Lord puts in front of us during the day that if we don't ask that question, if we're not aware of God's presence in us and around us and before us, that we just don't stop to answer, that we just don't give it any attention. And so, lord, who do you have for me to show up for today? As a question, I've actually ended several of our church services with hey guys, you leave this place this week, pray this like, ask yourself this question who are you supposed to show up for today? It's kind of amazing how often the Lord will present that to you.
Speaker 4:And we spend a lot of our time praying for people. We don't spend a lot of our time being willing to be the answer to people's prayers, and so I don't know. I think it's just a shift to see people. I mean, I don't know, there's probably something way more official to give you than what I just gave you, but I think it's just a matter of just continually walking in the spirit continually, even when and let's be honest there are times I don't feel the presence of God, like I'm embarrassed to say that.
Speaker 4:It feels a little bit shameful to say that, but there are times, you know, you're just left going. I mean, I'm praying Lord. It just feels like maybe my words are just kind of drifting out into space and then dissipating and are they ever really reaching the Father right? But I think it's praying with faith that says, even when I don't feel you, lord, I trust you and I trust that you're going to bring people in my path that are specifically for me today, and it's going to edify me, it's going to grow me, but it's also going to make a difference in them, and I don't think that's unique to a church thing and I think sometimes we don't know that he's answered it until we've met the person and after the fact we go oh there it is.
Speaker 3:There's the person that he put in front of me.
Speaker 4:I may not know it before it happens, but yeah, and there's an answer for you in it too. Yeah, like there's there's intimacy with the father and that for you as the one who is obedient, right, I mean that's pretty huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it gives us an anticipation that if we ask and we mean it, god put me in that place where I can be available for that person or that situation. It makes our faith, our walk with God, to be relevant every day, not just on a Sunday, not just on a special event, but it's every single day to be available. I mean, you just reflected back something that you heard somebody say 10 years ago that sometimes we may not know that we had any impact until later, or maybe never know, but just being faithful to be there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and if your full picture of the gospel represented in your city is I go to church, I sing songs for 25 minutes and the pastor preaches for 30 minutes and I go home and I go.
Speaker 4:Well, that was nice, like you've got such a small, like such a small little snapshot of what the gospel actually is, how it's experienced and expressed in in your world. And I don't think anybody's well maybe they are, I don't think anybody's malicious that they're trying to trap it to be that smaller, that minuscule, but the reality is there's just so much more and that's kind of what led us to do something new and it's, but it couldn't be breathed just from. Hey, our church wants to do something new. I think it first has to start in you as an individual, in you as an individual, and that's where it was breathed, in myself and my wife, and we just happened to find a bunch of people who thought the same thing, whether they didn't know how to lead that or how to articulate that, to which I'd go. Well, we don't either, but can we just try together A?
Speaker 2:lot of times people will say well, this church started because people didn't agree with the other church, and that is so often church splits. Whatever the case might, that wasn't the case here, no and I hate that narrative.
Speaker 4:And we have fought so hard, myself and the lead pastor at Grace Point, tim, who's one of my dearest dudes, like I love him to death. I mean just an unbelievable leader to be willing to say. I went to him one day I said, man, here's the deal, darren and I need to start a church. And I don't, like I wasn't looking forward to that conversation, right, like I was looking forward to getting it off my chest, but I wasn't looking forward to telling my boss, whom I love. And we said for years, if he ever left, I'd go with him. I mean, we're very tight, we're good friends, our daughters are best friends, like we're. And I said, well, it's time for us to start a church. Man, we just feel like the Lord wants to do this in us, obedient, like this is what obedience requires of us.
Speaker 4:And it really wasn't an ultimatum, it wasn't a hey, you can either get on board and get behind this or we're doing it without you. But it maybe came out like that, sorry, tim, and he just it. There was no pushback, there's all right, dude. Well, I'm not going to get in the way of that. How can we help? So there there's total like energy and synergy and unification around it. We stood in front of our church and told them together, guys, we, as as Grace Point Church, we're doing this, not Mark and Tara are leaving. And I mean he said here, here's some, here's some resources and, by the way, take anybody you want and the most valuable resource you have in the church is the people that are sitting in those seats right, he put no restrictions on it.
Speaker 4:Our church board put no restrictions on it.
Speaker 2:They said hey whoever's going to go, whatever it does to chop us off of the knees, we're okay with, and you know it was beautiful. I think it puts a big smile on God's face when we do it that way. Yeah, I mean you talked about when the church gets it right. That sounds like that's one of those evidences of it getting right, because Tim Pastor, tim Hughes, has got a great thing going on over there, had a great worship pastor.
Speaker 4:And if he were sitting here right now, he would tell you all the ways in which God has blessed them for their obedience too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the other thing. When we get in line with God, he opens the floodgates. He promises that in his word, but sometimes we don't see that clearly, or if we do see it clearly, we're afraid to step into that. Lamanda, you've been executive director at the Rescue Mission coming up on in April three years, and so you get really good people right, yeah.
Speaker 5:And you got a good Hold on. I'm still thinking of the fact that I'm trying to make it to three years. No, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding You're going to make it.
Speaker 2:You may be late, but you're going to make it.
Speaker 5:It's Christmas. It's Christmas, we're surviving, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's hard to keep the plate spinning all the time. You've got to have the right people in the right spots, yeah, and when they feel like they're supposed to go somewhere else, talk about how challenging that is and what you have to do between you and God to say okay and bless them.
Speaker 5:Yeah, a lot of yelling. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:Put a plunger on your forehead. Put a plunger on the forehead. You're about to step off into the abyss. You'll never be okay.
Speaker 5:And then I put the plunger on their back and I hold on tight so they can't leave me.
Speaker 5:You know, I think the key difference is really just trying to as much as humanly possible, having the perspective and the heart of Christ through it all.
Speaker 5:Like this, this world is not my world, trm is not my organization, it doesn't belong to me, it belongs to the Lord and recognizing that, yes, we have this mission to do and it's incredible when God gives us amazing people to execute those missions. But the other side of it is I have to always look at every individual staff member as they are on their own journey with the Lord, the Lord, and sometimes TRM is a part of their journey for a lengthy amount of time and sometimes it's not, and that I, while I have them and while they leave me, I have a responsibility to be a sister in Christ and steward that as easy as possible and as difficult as it is. So there's just. There is realness to it, there's loss. You're sad when you have people leave, that you're connected to that, you love, that you train, that you mentor. There is all of that right. There is this human piece to it where it's like man. That's a loss, been long before I came to the rescue mission.
Speaker 5:If it doesn't hurt when you leave, you didn't do it right. And so I remind myself of that as this leader of every time it hurts. It hurts when people leave, whether it's they leave on their own. And you know, Barry, I think the other thing that's prevalent to say here is we still have jobs to do too, and sometimes that is terminations, sometimes that is people quitting and it's not because of this amazing calling from the Lord. And my heart and my character has got to be the same in those departures as it is when someone is departing to take another step with the Lord for a great cause. And so, yeah, you know it's a challenge, but I think the kicker is to always perceive it and walk it out as much as humanly possible with the eyes and the heart of the Lord and recognizing everybody has their own journey, being thankful when TRM is a part of that journey and being understanding when it's not.
Speaker 2:We have responsibilities in whatever we're doing, and sometimes those responsibilities translate into we own this, we never own it, we never own it. That can change in a heartbeat in regards to, and literally a heartbeat in regards to we don't own it, but there's this term called steward or caretaking, and so we have that balance of. This is not our property.
Speaker 2:This is not our person, this is not our church, it's not our rescue mission. This is God's. And so how do we, in our assignment, then step into that place of caretaker for this season in that regard? And so there's a balance in all that, in leadership. And so, 11 weeks in now, you've got that thing where it's been blessed. And so how are you processing Mark in regards to the responsibilities before you, and holding on tight to those responsibilities, but not holding on too tight to where it becomes your responsibility?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's tricky, you know. I'm going to touch on what LaManda just said a second ago. Someone said this a while back at a conference I was at. There was this husband and wife pastor couple who had planted numerous churches and one of those churches years ago. A bunch of people left at the same time and they were close friends with those people and they were hurt by it and they didn't know why they left and they never really got an explanation. But what they did, they went to counseling for it. They were actually that bothered, they were that like hurt and tore about it and a counselor laid something out for them that I thought was really moving and it's actually really informed me in what both of you just said that these people aren't ours. They were never ours, they're not property. If they're anybody's property, they're Jesus's property, not ours, right?
Speaker 4:He said start treating people like they're foster kids. They said they're not your kids. But when you welcome them into your house, what's your job with them? Love them, care for them as hard as you can, as well as you can, for as long as you have them and and especially a lot of you know a lot of kids.
Speaker 4:A lot of these people come in in our churches and in the mission for sure come with trauma, come with difficult experiences that have brought them here, and so we have this huge responsibility to just love them well through that trauma, for whatever season we get them. I said we get them as though they're ours, but to recognize they're not ours and so if we can treat them like foster kids, we can sort of not, because we don't want to be attached. Of course we want to be attached. There's a relational investment certainly in it, but I think it.
Speaker 4:I think it orients our, our hearts and our minds to realize that man, that man, the Lord has blessed us to have these people in our midst for the season we get them. And our church is the same way. I mean, I'm already 11 weeks in going. Man, there's going to be a day some of these people don't go here. I mean, the reality is there's going to be a day that people are like, well, yeah, mark, I signed up to help get going, but now I'm tired and I'm ready to do whatever else I was doing before you know, but it's been amazing, it's been good.
Speaker 4:It's been good to really see people as the Lord's people, not as rooted people, not as Mark's parishioners.
Speaker 2:You know they're not mine. I think you bring up something else that I want to make sure we don't go past, in that the church is made up of broken people. Some people think that in order to be able to go to church, I got to be that perfect person. Or, unfortunately, people think that if a person goes to church and they're not perfect, then there's something wrong with the whole church. And so talk a little bit about that. The gospel, obviously good news about forgiveness of sins, but that does not make us perfect, necessarily do everything right. And so how do you lead a broken people and what does it mean in that regard, how the church gets it right? What does that look like? Broken people, sinners, imperfection, people struggling like everybody else does, but yet there's this assignment that is Christ ownership, his church. He said I will build my church. You get to be a part of it. How do we get that right?
Speaker 4:Yeah well, Jesus said a lot about what his church would be. I think chief among them, as he said, would be a house of prayer. So I think you have to bathe all those things in prayer. I tell our church probably not frequently enough, but I tell them, you know, if you've come here tonight and first of all, we're trying to reach people who don't know Jesus. Now is it great when people come to our church who do know Jesus and already are ready to jump in and contribute and be a part, Like, yes, of course it is Right, but they're not the target. We feel blessed by that, we feel honored to have them like jump on with us. But uh, it's cause they want to jump onto the mission of God, Not because I hope, it's, not because they just think, oh, those people are awesome, Um, it's just a way for them to to be a part of the mission to God.
Speaker 4:Here I tell people often you know, we don't come here because we have it figured out. We come here because we don't. We need a savior. You know, I'm saved by grace, through faith. I don't live in that depravity any longer. However, I still need Jesus, I still need the Lord to move. I still need the Lord to incline his ear toward me when I pray. I still need to know that my sin, which has been covered for eternity, is still something I wrestle with. It's still something I'm inclined to sin.
Speaker 4:I'm inclined to mess up and I think, as leaders, I think if we can say that from the front of the room, I think it gives some freedom for people to walk in and not have to play that I'm perfect and I have this thing figured out thing. We want to create a space that's totally safe and yet we also don't want to leave people in their sin. We're not called to do that. We're called to invite people into something deeper with Jesus. But the reality is the Holy Spirit is going to do the work in their lives, not us.
Speaker 4:If he chooses to use us in some monumental way, man, I'd celebrate that. That's awesome. If he chooses to use us to get the heck out of the way like I'm totally good with that too. I think we just have to trust that the Holy Spirit's the one who condemns. The Holy Spirit's the one who convicts. Condemns is the wrong word. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts and changes hearts. All we have to do is walk with people in love and grace and truth and trust that that can be our role, but ours is a pretty small one.
Speaker 2:So you talk about two kinds of people that would be in rooted community church. One is people who know Jesus and people who don't know Jesus.
Speaker 4:What does it mean to know Jesus? Well, man, that is a. That could be the most basic question you could ever ask, or maybe the most complex one you've ever asked.
Speaker 2:Because somebody's listening right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:May have heard you say there's people that will come to my church and know Jesus, and there are people that won't know Jesus. Which one am I?
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, I. So I think there's a clear line of delineation between I think most people, at least most people listening to this right now would say I know who God is right About him, at least I know. I know, I know that this God exists, or that there are people that think this God exists, I know of whoever, even if I don't believe in him. I know who that is they're referring to and I think that's probably reasonable to say. Anybody that has the ability to listen to this today is probably in that camp. But I think there's a real stark difference between I know of God and I know God because I am God's, and I think we feel sometimes like we have to make that maybe more official than probably what the Bible says. I can't see in scripture where it lays out the quote I'm putting air quotes up right now the sinner's prayer Find that for me, you know, we, we. I don't know why we've done that. I think we've tried to create some easy paths to show people how to you know die to themselves and how to you know be less them and be more God. I think that's just a guided prayer, but at some point we try to make this really official thing and the reality is all it means is I'm putting my faith in god instead of in myself. I'm trusting god not just with my eternity, but I'm trusting with trusting him with my today, right now and every day that I get on this earth and every day that I get after um. To know jesus is to know hope. Uh, to know jesus is to know peace, is to know hope. To know Jesus is to know peace. And in this Advent season, how relevant is this right? To know Jesus is to know love. To know Jesus is to know joy.
Speaker 4:I would say. To not know Jesus is to not have a shot at those things, and we can try to over overstep or over spiritualize, and that sounds really sacrilege for me to say right. I don't mean to say it that way, there's probably a better way to say it, but the truth is it's really as simple as I need a savior, and one has come for me and I'm choosing to place my life in his hands. And there are people in our church that have made that decision and there are people in our church that haven't, and I say to that thank you, lord.
Speaker 4:The reason we're doing church is for those who haven't. The reason we're gathering is for those. I mean, I can gather with my church buddies all the time. That's overstating it. Church buddies doesn't mean they're saved, right, I can gather my saved friends all the time, and I do. I mean I'm sitting here with one of my best pals ever, josh, like we can do that. But if we're not extending our hands to those who aren't saved and I don't mean literally, although there's a big part of that, that's literal, but you know.
Speaker 3:Barry, I think, too, having a church that's mixed like that of people that believe they know Jesus and people that don't, the people that know Jesus can gain so much from those people that don't, because they can see how things work different. They see Christ start to work in people's lives and there is a fire that can be caught from new believers versus those of us maybe who are cradle Christians. Right, we've been in it our entire lives. Our homes were filled with Jesus, our lives were filled with Jesus, and so it's almost like, yeah, I've known Jesus all my life, but not Right. I think it's that knowing of, and when you see new believers catch Christ, catch that fire, there is something for me as a believer, very convicting about that. Am I willing to put that kind of passion and energy into my relationship with him? And so I think there is much to be learned from new believers. For people who have been walking that a bit and maybe what I'm hearing say also the people that aren't from new believers.
Speaker 2:For people who have been walking that a bit, and maybe what I'm hearing you say also, the people that aren't even new believers they are seeking. They will probably not come to the church unless you're having a dinner or a trunk or treat or whatever. They won't keep coming to church and not quote, unquote, knowing Jesus, unless they're interested in finding out how you get to know Jesus. And you mentioned another term. Mark, put you on the spot here, saved and unsaved. What?
Speaker 4:does that mean. Yeah, well, I guess we could get real theological if you want to. I don't know that I'll drag us that far into that, but you know, this all comes down to the person of Jesus, who isn't the story of the gospel, isn't just the story of good news. It is the person of Jesus who isn't the story of the gospel isn't just a story of good news.
Speaker 4:It is the person of Jesus. The gospel is realized in the person of Jesus. The gospel meaning the good news of God, the incarnate God putting on human skin, coming to be with us. That's the story of the gospel that we were lost, we were gone, we had no shot, we couldn't make our way to God, we couldn't do enough, we couldn't be good enough. This is the difference in. This is the difference in, you know, christianity versus other religions. We don't just have to write ourselves so that we can be before God. No, Jesus was what makes us right. We can be righteous before God because, and only because of, christ.
Speaker 4:So to be saved is I am placing all of my trust from now and forever, although that gets a little tricky too, because I can actually see plenty of places in the scripture that says listen, I'm not demanding your life, I'm demanding your today. I'm asking you today, I'm asking you to pick up your cross daily. I'm asking you to choose this day whom you'll serve. And I think we make it this big, old, long, lifelong commitment when really I think the Lord's going. How about just today, like tomorrow's enough? Let's not worry about tomorrow, just wake up each day with that and to be saved just means my eternity is secure, my salvation meaning this life I get to have in heaven with God, where this rescue plan God put into action on Christmas, when Jesus came, when he put on skin to come to be with us, to redeem us, to restore us, so that we can be restored to the Father forever.
Speaker 4:After all, sin jacked us all up with the fall of Adam and Eve. Right, it just says sin jacked us up. Jesus came to fix that. We received that as truth and now we have wholeness. We have what the old Testament would say shalom peace. This wholeness, this completeness, that comes only by knowing Jesus and that's the only way we can be saved, by grace, through faith in Christ. He's the way, he's the truth, he's the life, he's the only way to heaven. We can't do enough, we can't be good enough, we can't say the right things. It just has everything to do with placing our lives, our trust, in God. That's how we're saved, not because of all the good things we do.
Speaker 2:I think that's good and I think for someone who's listening right now they could be listening here on December 18th or they could be listening a year from now to this is that the struggle.
Speaker 2:A lot of people think that, you know, I'm either going to go to heaven or hell, based upon the prayer that I say or the contract that I sign or the church that I affiliate with, and it's something that, as you say every single day, it is an opportunity to connect with know um, the creator of the universe, because he desires to know us and wants himself revealed in us. And we get a chance to um as the body of Christ. Whether it's a rescue mission, a church or a, a business or whatever, it is people who are in there to help people to understand as we're all foster kids that we were loved and that we're cared for. And LaManda Merriam, the rescue ministry at Topeka Rescue Mission, is going out to places where people don't feel they're loved, they don't feel like anybody cares for them, they feel like that they've been a throwaway. And then giving an opportunity not to try to get them quote, quote to join the church or get saved or whatever, but just to know that God loves them. It's pretty powerful. Big responsibility, big responsibility.
Speaker 5:It is, and and it's one that is so hard to explain and to try to, because of so many different reasons right, whether it's we can't share a lot of what we do because of confidentiality or, um, because we're trying to protect dignity, or sometimes it's just hard to explain what we do, because it could also look very different what we do for this woman that we find underneath the Kansas Avenue Bridge than we do the gentleman that is digging in the trash at Burger King, and so what is the same, though and that's the message that I think we try to put on our social media when we do speaking events, all of these things is we are trying to get the community to but the God that we serve when we all get in our best clothes and we go on a Sunday morning or a Saturday night, and there are things planned ahead of time, down to the minute of who's singing and who's speaking and who's praying and who's reading scripture that same God that we're coming to learn about and that we're coming to give glory and that we're coming to praise. We limit him, we as believers, we as Christians, we as leaders. We limit him and what I think? My role as the ED, our leadership team here at the Rescue Mission and us as a whole team here at the Rescue Mission and us as a whole we are trying to get the community, particularly the church, to understand that that same God that we do all of these things for and with on Sundays is that same God who loves the person who will never set foot in a building, who is alone on the streets, who was just raped, who just raped someone who's in addiction, who is getting out of their tent to go walk to the nearest bus stop to go to work because they are working poor. This same God that, if we truly believe in who Christ was as a human created by the creator, truly believe in who Christ was as a human created by the creator, and then we're given the Holy Spirit as the advocate, that same salvation is offered to anybody outside the building. And we have the blessing, the privilege, the challenge, the heartache of telling someone in the midst of a high, in the midst of a mental crisis, in the midst of feeling so lonely and out of touch because they've been isolated for so long, like here is the person that died for you. Here's the story. The story is the same for you, as it is the person who looks beautiful sitting in a church building right now and there is such a disconnect and I would love for leaders to start stepping out in risk and I'm talking the church leadership to start talking more about the challenges and the misconceptions that we bring forth as believers, Because sometimes what we mean that is so good and those things are good, when we're not looking at trying to go out and do those outside of walls, we are missing ample opportunities to share the gospel with people that are dying and hurting every day on the streets of Topeka and in Shawnee County.
Speaker 5:And you know, barry um, my world has been rocked here lately. We have lost more people experiencing homelessness in the last 11 days, both inside the shelter, and I can't say a lot about that, but we have stuff where people pass away because life is life and death is death. We have had shelter deaths, we have had unsheltered deaths, we have had people experiencing homelessness, hit by cars, we have had overdoses and that is tough and that's not something I'm going to make a Facebook post about. It's not something that we're going to talk social media on, but when we talk about this hope of who Christ is, that is something that it almost taunts me Is what happened to those five or six that we've lost in the last 11 days, and did we miss an opportunity to share the gospel? Because they're never going to set foot in a church building?
Speaker 5:And so I'm wrestling right now with church leaders, I'm wrestling with myself, I'm wrestling with what our roles are. But if we looked at all the churches we had in Topeka, and every church gave up one Sunday to take their hope that they have in Christ to the streets every 52 weeks of the year, we would have the gospel being shared on the streets of Topeka and Shawnee County versus expecting people to walk indoors. And I have seen so many churches do this well and love well. And I have also seen churches say someone who's dirty or messed up or in a crisis better not ever come in and ruin our service. And if you look at the life of Christ, it's not how he lived.
Speaker 4:That's not even how he came.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:I mean, when you consider the message to the shepherds, who really were ceremonially unclean and should have never been welcomed there in this worship moment with God, and yet the message to them was to you, a child is born. I mean, the dirtiest of us. Yeah, it's a message we preach at Christmas. I don't know if it's a message that enough churches are activating their people to go live, but yeah, it's real, it's out there. Churches need to do better.
Speaker 3:And when you hear what both Mark and Lamanda are saying, barry, it just reminds me. You know, heaven is not our end game, right? It's really about our day-to-day relationship with the Lord and bringing that to people. It's not like we have to wait till we get to heaven or the opposite if we don't have a relationship. Loving Christ is not about that end game. Loving Christ is about what we get right now, today, in hope, not the hope for the future, but the hope for right now.
Speaker 4:And your kingdom come. Your will be done today on earth, exactly On earth.
Speaker 1:Exactly Go ahead. I was going to say I think that circles back to what you said about the sinner's prayer. We kind of made it like all right, you pray the prayer, you're good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 2:End game done.
Speaker 3:check, we can go on to do the rest of life, because to that saved from right, it's like no, no. The whole point of this is the relationship with and that happens today.
Speaker 2:Jesus gave a parable about a master who had three employees or servants and he was going to go away and he said I'm going to give you some responsibilities while I'm gone they call them talents and then when I come back we'll check in. And he checked in and some people took those daily and invested them and one didn't kind of end game. I want to play it safe, I want to make it to the end. I don't want to risk it and the rest is sold. Yeah the late, so um, but no, it's um, we miss it if we just want to get to the end game and heaven, fire insurance, whatever the case might be.
Speaker 2:We kind of went deep here today, but I think that some really important points were brought out. In regards to what is the church, mark, you said when it gets it right. I really think that that's important. What does it mean to get it right? What does it mean to get it right and how do we, as people who identify with Christ, called Christians, get it right? Whether it's out on the street, whether it's in a homeless shelter, whether it's in a food line, whether it's in a church building, whether it's in a neighborhood, what does it mean to get it right with God? And that's a big, big need for us to continue to unpack what that means. Mark, what else should we know about Rooted Community Church? 11 weeks now old, and so still a baby. Where do you meet? When do you meet? And if somebody's curious about coming over and checking you out, how do they do that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, I'd warn you, if you're curious to come check us out. Um, I'll just own this, like we're okay with this. We're a young church, we are. Our production quality is not the best show in town. Our preaching is not the best preaching in town, cause I'm the one doing it. Uh I don't know.
Speaker 4:Our production is pretty great, josh and Jennifer. That's fair. Hurt him, shots fired, my bad. But you know something Amanda said a few minutes ago, one of the. In fact, I just, I just I just put a Facebook post out yesterday and I don't post on Facebook hardly ever, usually just silly things my kids say.
Speaker 4:But I basically said you know, standing in, standing in auditoriums on weekends and singing to God is surely glorifying to him, but I'm not sure it is. If we walk out of there and we return back to our agendas that have nothing to do with lifting a finger to help our neighbor, I'm just not sure that's the kind of worship the Lord desires. That's not true. I actually am sure that's not the kind of worship the Lord desires from us.
Speaker 4:So you know, rooted rooted our scorecard is really not about and I've told our churches over and over and it's really weird for a pastor to say this I don't really care how big we grow, I don't really care how many people sit in our seats, I do care about how many people we're bringing to heaven with us. I do care about, you know, experience like stepping into our redemptive potential in our neighborhood, in our community, in our workplaces. If that brings them into our church is great. I think one of the things I think rooted has going for them. I think for a lot of the people that maybe don't feel like they can step into a church building or just don't like you know, they'll get struck by lightning if they do, or whatever, we meet in a school building, in the old Topeka Lutheran school building. It's at 6th, well, 7th and Roosevelt, so just south of 6th and just east of McVicar. It's not glamorous, it's not, can I say, sexy.
Speaker 3:I just did. I just did. Josh will beep it out later, yeah right, but I think it's welcoming.
Speaker 4:I think, uh, I think it's welcoming to anybody. That's the feedback we've gotten so far. We actually meet on Saturday nights. I don't know if that makes it more welcoming or less welcoming, but we meet on Saturday nights at five o'clock and it's just an old gym, um, and it seems to seems to welcome who probably comes to mind.
Speaker 4:I hope this doesn't insult anybody, but probably, when we think of who is Jesus speaking of when he said the least of these, we're not getting a lot of, you know, white collar six figure incomes walking through our doors. Probably somewhat. Where we're located, probably somewhat. I'm not sure what to attribute that to, but that's fine, because that was never our goal. We're trying to find people who need Jesus too, but that's fine, because that was never our goal. We're trying to. We're trying to find people who need Jesus. If they come into our doors, great. If not, we're at least trying to make a presence in that community so they know that there's somebody there who loves them and cares for them and we're willing to get outside of our building and go be in the neighborhood with them and share Jesus with them or share a holiday ham with them right Like share, whatever their needs are.
Speaker 4:In fact, we were blessed to be a part of your guys' Christmas deliveries last Saturday. We just said, heck with it, we're going, let's go. And tons and tons of people just came out and said, all right, let's go, be in our community.
Speaker 5:And we're here. Early I heard from my staff. They were like man Rooted was on fire and I said why they were here before they were supposed to. They had their own system to do it. We were able to execute, getting more deliveries done than anticipated and I said, yeah, they, they walk the walk and talk yeah.
Speaker 4:I don't know. I think we just happened to start the church with a bunch of people who were like, about that? Right, like you know, one of the big churches that are established are great, but they're comfortable and sometimes comfortable is too comfortable. We just started this trip. We said here's what you're signing up for if you're coming here. And they all went yeah, let's do it. We're rooted. So then when I say, all right, well, here's your chance to really show up on this, they're all about it. So it doesn't say much about me. I don't think. No-transcript. I was exposed on Saturday, like you guys see, the poorest of the poor in this community.
Speaker 4:I saw, like I think, what can only be described as barely a step higher than than homeless. I mean I've seen some homeless conditions that were better than houses than than homes. I saw, right, like so it just reinforced for me. I mean there's, there's so much love to be shown, so much, and not just by saying, hey, do you know Jesus? That's huge, that's big, that's the best gift we can offer somebody. But, man, how credible can we be to offer them that gift if we first offer them the opportunity of relationship and restoration when some of these things are struggling with? So that's kind of our path forward with people. So I? That's a long answer. Your question, how people come check out rooted. You can come check out rooted. You're like, you're welcome, we'd love you, we'd celebrate you walking through our door. But if you're coming to rooted, you're coming to love this city, you're not coming to get a comfortable seat. In fact, our seats aren't comfortable at all.
Speaker 2:They're not, they're really not.
Speaker 4:If you're coming to check out Rooted, you're coming to give to Rooted, I just say, fine, you're actually checking out the city, you're actually giving to our city. So that's the shot we're going for, at least. It's a long one, but we're going to keep firing Mark, we're glad you didn't play it safe.
Speaker 2:Thank you for all you've done for all the years at Grace Point and now stepping out and what do you understand is your assignment and the location your assignment is in. I think today what we've talked about is a lot of things that are pretty deep, but it kind of comes back to this what does it mean to be saved? What does it mean to know Christ? What does it mean to get it right in the church? And it's all about loving the ones in front of us and being available in the moment, not trying to sign onto a contract or even necessarily find the place that's got the safest, comfortablest chairs, but to be able to be relevant in the world.
Speaker 2:Today, topeka Rescue Mission loves leaders like you who can talk to people, whatever their walk of life is, and let them know how valued they are and when they have capability of joining the efforts of Topeka Rescue Mission to do what you guys are doing, to be relevant every single day over on Roosevelt Street and to be relevant every day outside of Roosevelt Street as well. And so what a great time to have you come and share with us today about what's going on with Rooted Community Church here in our community meets on Saturday evenings, and especially this time of year, about six days before the big day of Christmas. But that's just the day that we recognize the advent of Christ coming to this world. Thank you for listening to Our Community, our Mission. If you are interested in helping Topeka Rescue Mission, as Miriam said earlier, you can go to trmonlineorg. That's trmonlineorg. There's plenty of opportunities for people to plug in, both with their time, with their, their resources and especially with their prayer. Thank you for being a listener to our community, our mission.