Our Community, Our Mission
Our Community, Our Mission
Ep #258 – From Burnout to Compassion: Kaleb Chockley’s Journey
This episode of Our Community, Our Mission was recorded prior to the incident on March 4th, in which an unsheltered neighbor was injured during a city-mandated encampment abatement. Our hearts are heavy over what happened, and while we are deeply grateful that he is okay, we are saddened that this situation occurred at all.
We are also incredibly thankful for the many partners and boots on the ground advocates in our community who care deeply and work tirelessly to support our unsheltered neighbors with compassion and dignity. But this incident is a stark reminder of what happens when decisions are made by elected officials without careful strategic measures and proper continuum of care community housing options, making it difficult on staff that are required to carry out their directives.
The conversation in this episode reflects the very concerns that so many have been voicing for so long—concerns about the need for a thoughtful, community-driven approach to homelessness. This is why collaboration, compassion, and real solutions matter.
Also, in this episode of Our Community, Our Mission, we sit down with Kaleb Chockley, TRM Board Member and Topeka firefighter, to discuss his transformative journey from burnout to renewed purpose. Kaleb shares his experiences responding to 911 calls for the unsheltered in central Topeka, the struggles of compassion fatigue, and how faith reshaped his perspective.
With raw honesty, Kaleb reflects on the struggle many Christians face in truly stepping into opportunities to love others. He challenges believers to move beyond easy answers and embrace the complexity of homelessness with humility, grace, and an open heart. He reminds us that the same mercy available to us is available to everyone, and no matter our position, we are called to lead boldly in faith and love others as God does.
To learn more about TRM, Click Here!
To support TRM, Click Here!
Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you, lord, for this day and this time, lord, to just come together and have a conversation, lord, about the incredible people that partner with the Topeka Rescue Mission. Lord, I pray your blessing over this time and, lord, that ears that would hear would be encouraged in one way or another. Lord, we just thank you and we praise your name. Amen.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, Thank you for joining us. Another edition of Our Community, Our Mission, a podcast of the Topeka Rescue Mission. I'm your host today, Barry Feeker. It's Wednesday, March the 5th 2025. This is episode number 258. I'm here this morning with LaManda Cunningham, CEO of Topeka Rescue Mission. Good morning, LaManda. Good morning, how are you?
Speaker 3:I'm good.
Speaker 2:There's a lot going on in Topeka right now isn't there.
Speaker 3:There is, I think there always is, though I'm not sure what we do if we ever have a podcast where we're like, yeah, there's not really a lot going on. Probably not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think so. Not going to happen in your world. That's Some really important updates and then a really cool guest that we have today, but we want to talk about the research and development department's hard work that they put into every single week trying to find out what's really important about today.
Speaker 3:You lay it on thick.
Speaker 2:sometimes I do I really do, and so Josh is down here with research and development. I always like to give credit to Isaiah though. Yeah, that's right, Just in case it's kind of goofy. So anyway, I know many of you tune in to be able to hear what's important about Wednesday March the 5th.
Speaker 2:Well, one thing is really important is Ash Wednesday, and so Ash Wednesday, as many people know, is the six weeks before Easter that people then begin to get prepared for celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and so that's a very, very important and serious time to recognize, and so some people are beginning to go into sacrificing and fasting and getting ready just to be able to be grateful for that holy day. But there's also a couple of other days that I wasn't aware of until the very important research and development department of Tepica rescue mission. It's real film day, and it's not R E A L, it's R E E L. You knew about that, didn't you?
Speaker 3:Because you're sure you're movie buff right. Yeah, I woke up this morning I said, man, I can't wait to celebrate real day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, I mean, it's this, this, knowing about this. It's always celebrated on March, the 5th um celebrated in the U? S with the film screenings and showcasing events organized by the independent cinemas across the country. Don't they have enough award stuff that they do? I mean the Grammys, the I don't know if they, I don't know the Oscars, what they'd have here the other night, something with a bunch of people hugging each other, you know, and getting awards and mad and dressing. Really weird and so, but anyway, real film day. R-e-e-l.
Speaker 3:Uh-huh, do you like movies?
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, I've never heard you talk about movies, yeah. Yeah, well, we could talk about movies, I know. So I wonder if our guests can come back next week. That's right.
Speaker 3:Let's not. Let's not and say we did. I do like the movies. I like them in color too. You are the only one that remembers them before they were.
Speaker 2:Was freaky in black and white.
Speaker 3:I want to tell you that's true. Traumatized as a kid, those crazy monkeys.
Speaker 2:One more thing from our research in the Bell department learn what your name means. Day Today, on the 5th of March, this is a day that you should learn what your name means.
Speaker 3:Amanda, what's your name mean? I have absolutely no clue. Oh, I have some clues, the brat. Yeah, I don't know. You know, in the eighties Amanda was extremely popular Amanda, and then Chris for a boy, and so my mom liked the name Amanda and then somehow ended up knowing someone else and that person had like a babysitter or something named LaManda and it stuck with my mind.
Speaker 2:So you were actually named Manda to start with, and then they meant this French person to go LaManda.
Speaker 3:So now it's the Amanda, I guess. I don't know, but I don't know what it means.
Speaker 1:A quick Google search LaManda is likely a variation of the name Manda, which, depending on the context, can mean lovable or promise.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's exactly how I describe myself.
Speaker 2:Well, you have a better day. I know what's going to happen every March 5th now.
Speaker 3:Unlovable day. Unlovable day. Yeah, so do you know what Barry means? I could maybe have some guesses.
Speaker 2:No, go ahead, we're going to move on, we're going to move on. So it's two things Uh-huh Courage, and the other is water bearer.
Speaker 3:Water bearer yeah, so you need a drink, okay, I got a bottle of water right here, so we're good. I knew we could always count on you.
Speaker 2:So now that we set the stage for important things that we like to talk about, la Manda, we've had a lot of activity going on that you've been involved in, a number of other people have been involved in, in regards to the homeless, which is no surprise, but there has been some continuation of cleaning homeless camps. We talked pretty extensively and took a deep dive on that last podcast, but this week some of those camps are being cleared. There was also a very important press conference this week with Topeka Jump in regards to the Affordable Housing Trust Fund and some commitments. It appears to be at the city council level to go ahead and find ways to utilize the million dollars in the trust fund to be able to create some affordable housing in our community. So a lot going on.
Speaker 2:People are talking all over the community about this issue, but what about the camps? What's been happening? How? There has been some need for continued communications between the rescue mission and the city of Topeka on these things. Not everything is pretty at this point, but camps are getting cleared. What's the latest?
Speaker 3:Man, I feel like we should to devote a whole podcast to just that right. But kind of in a nutshell, you know, a couple of years ago in September, city council kind of followed suit of the county of putting some ordinances in place. Particularly county looked at it from a trails perspective. Mostly city then did the same thing. And so you know, I think it's important to say that myself as CEO, but also TRM as a whole, we have never said that our city shouldn't have an ordinance. We've never said that, you know, we shouldn't have some safety parameters in place. Those, those are valued.
Speaker 3:What I as the CEO, and what we have TRM, have repeatedly said is can we do this very systematically and logically by a couple of different examples, other communities who have done it well, also other communities who have not done it well. Looking back, you know several years ago, when you all embarked on needing to do this for Tent City and how that was done, with a lot of partnerships and over, you know, 12 months, and so unfortunately, that request to not put the cart before the horse just has continued. And you know I've been asked here lately are you going to the county about this? Well, I do think the county has a part in this right. They're also our government and the city of Topeka lies within the county, so I get it, but the other side is what's mostly impacting TRM right now are these encampment cleanups that are being done by the city of Topeka, not the county.
Speaker 3:So, that being said, there's really just been this consistent request on our behalf to city leadership, and let me let me explain here and I'm not trying to sound more pointed, but I do want to be very clear we, meaning our community, have incredible boots on the ground, teams made up of everywhere. So you've got incredible boots on the ground, people from Code Compliance. You've got incredible people boots on the ground from EAS. You've got incredible boots on the ground people from our outreach team Vallejo, tbd's Behavioral Health Unit, outreach all of those things right, reach, all of those things right. These are teams who do incredible work together, but also are trying to be as respectful to the ordinance and do things accordingly. But it's also hard because there are decision makers making decisions and none of those decision makers are here when these enforcements are done. None of them.
Speaker 2:Not boots on the ground, are they?
Speaker 3:And yet the boots on the ground, people are the ones that are having to face our neighbors and be, on one hand, gaining trust for weeks and months, and sometimes years, right To get to know their story, to walk with them as they're waiting on the EAS waiting list, to walk through them, through possible relapses, or walking them through job applications. All of those things and those things take time. And then, in the midst of this, we have not put any type of continuum of care, housing options in place. We've not added anything, we've not taken a risk to say, hey, let's do a low barrier shelter, or let's do some tiny home pilots, let's do a designated camping area. None of that's been done. So we've continued these cleanups.
Speaker 3:Because of what? Decision makers have continued to be vocal and wanting, enforced, saying that's what their constituents want. Well, I don't. I don't wake up every day and say, man, I can't wait to see what strife I cause, but I absolutely am called by the Lord to be a voice for those that are not being heard. And right now we have a lot of people in our community that are starting to speak up to say, hey, we know people are saying they don't like the trash. We know people don't like this, that and the other, but we're here to say we don't like all of this enforcement. That's happening with no option other than relocating people. So that's kind of where we're at right now is it's it's pretty strenuous, but I'm also hopeful.
Speaker 3:Barry, you know historically what we've had. It's not been consistent, but at times we, as in social service providers, have had about a 30-day notice. It comes down from some leadership in the city of Topeka goes to the behavioral health unit. They let us know 30-day notice on what? That a specific encampment is going to be cleaned up. What happened with this one and why I was very concerned from a public safety viewpoint but also the dignity of our folks, was because we did not receive a specific date at all formally until last Thursday that this was going to occur on Monday and equipment was coming Tuesday. So we're talking a five day notice.
Speaker 3:Now to back that up, I found out informally from a Facebook post of council leadership and to me it's not professional when we're all working together and it is on the livelihoods of people. We need to follow that process. So I started digging deep to know is this social media informal post? Is that really our trigger, as all the social service agencies, to be doing this? And why did we not have the 30 day notice? And this is the last phase, meaning there's now nowhere for people to go. So anywhere they relocate is going to be illegal or it's going to be unsafe for our neighborhoods, because they're coming into our neighborhoods Not that they're bad people, not that they're there but now they have no resources, no place to call home and there's nowhere for them to go. So the reason why this one got controversial is when I started questioning that, it was well, you knew this phase was coming, correct.
Speaker 2:But when we're talking with people, Someday, but didn't know when the day would be, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And then the problem with this is, you know, in December, when we start kind of hearing these rumors and that there's communications that more is coming, if we started doing something, then people that are in the midst of trauma, regardless of what the trauma is, they can't think through 90 days or 75 days.
Speaker 3:And then if we would have outreached in December the cold weather, all of that when they started first saying they were going to do this, then you have transition, you have people that leave, are in and out, and so that's why this kind of what I'm going to call a sweet spot of the 30 days is that's a way that your social service agents can truly go out and outreach and connect to resources. But the other side of it is that's also how we're able to logically say these resources have been offered or these resources we don't have, like, let's really call a spade a spade, and then we're able to say if there were resources, people did not take them. Well, that's when you've exhausted right the humanity piece, the compassionate piece, and then it really is okay, we have to move to citations, because we do have to have cleanliness and all of that. But you would have provided options.
Speaker 2:Correct Before citation yes, and that didn't happen.
Speaker 3:No, and so then the other predicament, now that we're in, is this is the last cleanup, and so they're still doing cleanups. And then, two weeks ago, they chose to strengthen the ordinance, and the same argument that I'm saying now that I said back before they did this in summer of 23, was we have no options If we issue this beautiful statement of nope. We've had outreach teams out there connecting them to resources. Well, we're connecting them to resources, not housing options. So we have people on the EAS wait list Well, that's great, we've put them on the wait list.
Speaker 2:We're on a wait list. They're on a wait list. That's not housing, and they could go to mobile access partnership get a shower, get a meal, those kind of things, that's a resource. Get a meal, those kinds of things, that's a resource. But then they go where? After they leave there, they're in the TRMs full, and so there is no housing option here.
Speaker 3:Right. And there's this. You know I'm going to I don't know people's hearts, right? So I'm just going to say maybe it's just a misconception that TRM is just against this or that we're not working with cleanups. That is not accurate.
Speaker 3:My team, every time when we have the 30 day notice, my shelter directors go out, on the UTV or the trucks, depending on where the encampment cleanups are. They go out, they interface, regardless if it's two individuals or 22. And we talk to them about do they have a restriction at the shelter? If so, we will automatically lift it. Do they want to come in? Can they come in? But then there's limitations there, whether it's the person's cognitive ability at that time, whether it's the fact that we're going over variants, but we're doing that because we realize they have no place to go. Animals, which is not something that insurance, wise, liability and all of that I can't allow animals in. There's a lot of obstacles there. But our team goes out and does this and we come back and we report to other boots on the ground hey, we have done our part, we've tried to connect them. They either couldn't accept it or they're not ready for that, those kinds of things. And then we recognize that there's, you know, struggles, then whatever, whatever's next, and we walk through that. So we are all about the process when it is truly people centered.
Speaker 3:But we cannot be a part of stuff when we continue to do the cleanups and there's nowhere to go and then we talk so poorly about people because now they're on Wanamaker, they're behind Menards, they're off of 21st Street. Well, that's for two reasons, barry. One you said it four or five years ago now the national trend is increasing. You also went before council and other people and explaining and in that is also a graying homeless the age is increasing. You've done all that. I've said it since I took over after you. The other side of it is I need listeners to know if you are seeing homelessness now in your area and you haven't before, it is absolutely because of the ordinance and the fact that, not the ordinance alone, but the fact that we did not have housing options in place before doing the movements.
Speaker 3:So, all of that being said, my heart as CEO stands the same. We still have the power to change it. Now I don't want to continue to talk about what's been done. I want us to look at this and go okay, so it could have been done differently. We can't go back now. But let's really make this right.
Speaker 3:As leaders moving forward and myself when I'm talking about myself and other leaders in the community, including council, commissioners, city manager, mayor, whoever leadership we want to talk about I still stand firm, ready to partner with them and listen to their points, understand their questions and their concerns. I'll give them my expertise that I have for moving forward. The other side of it is I will not be muted for this cause, and that is not me trying to be berating, that's not me trying to be disrespectful. It's also not me trying to cause division. But if we don't moving forward, do things differently again, not your boots on the ground. People they're truly, they are some incredible people right now.
Speaker 3:So I'm not talking that. I'm talking myself and other city leadership that have decisions, that have the power to make decisions and we are entrusted, and if we are going to use our power in a way that harms people, I want no part of it. Now, if we are at a different place and I'm hopeful, I'm very hopeful with our city manager we want to be supportive of that, that moving forward. Before we do more encampment cleanups, we should all be coming together and take a risk of what housing options do we want to start making for our community? That's needed and I'm hopeful that that's going to happen and we'll do that, walking in excitement and anticipatory, you know, thoughts of like, hey look what we can do, we can be an example. But the other side of it is if we, if that does not come to fruition and we continue to do these things where we can just say, well, we have the authority to do it and we're doing it TRM does not want to be a part of that because it's not right.
Speaker 2:You know, to many people. They're beginning to take a real look at this and ask the legitimate question what sense does it make to move people out of one place with no place for them to go? I mean, it's a little bit of common sense there that they don't just disappear, they don't just get better, they don't just go away. And so you've described it. They can be in various different places, which they already are starting to be in those various different places, and it didn't solve the problem. And so common sense would say let's come together, let's do clean up our city, let's do help people to move into something better, but that takes some time. Yes.
Speaker 2:And that doesn't happen overnight, when your shelter's full and there's no other place to go. Then what you've done is you've traded one problem for another, and there's some human suffering in the process of that. So, lamanda, yeah, I think that people are hearing you say what you're saying. You're not just playing it, nice, but you're being nice. You're just trying to say let's do this together, let's do some common sense here and let's find ways for solutions.
Speaker 3:And you know we have a lot of listeners that are passionate right now, and you know I think that you know we see some of the things on the KSNT threads or the WIBW threads the KSNT threads or the WIBW threads and there is everything from very mean comments about individuals experiencing homelessness, and then we have the other side of it. That is why are we doing this. Why are we doing this without places to go? We have people that are being more vulnerable now saying, hey, that used to be me. This isn't okay.
Speaker 3:I just read through several this morning and I thought are we giving and again decision makers voice to the people who are saying, hey, we don't want this done that way? And I don't think we are. I think we're listening to the constituents who have said this, this and this, and the nimbyism not in my backyard. And so my, my advice to listeners that are like hey, we are not for what's being done to these people Um, you have every right to communicate that. I just ask that we do that respectfully. We don't have to act like other people do when they are, um, belittling our people or with with cuss words and ugliness. We don't have to do that, but you can absolutely share your concerns with leadership. You can bring them to me and I can connect you to the right people too, because our community should be moving forward, tackling the concerns of homelessness with the right voice and not negative people who speak the loudest.
Speaker 2:There's been many situations in every community, including this one, that things got very uncomfortable. People didn't always make the right decisions, but people came together to make a better decision. That's one evidence is you have a Topeka rescue mission in Topeka. That wasn't always here and it wasn't always like it is today, because things had to get uncomfortable before we got comfortable with doing things better.
Speaker 2:And that's where we are again. So well, amanda, there's, as you said, we could do a whole podcast on this, which we did last week, so there's going to be more on this, but it's important that people get an update, and so thank you for that. Story's not over. We're still going to be moving forward for better solutions than this one and, in the process, we pray for those who are making decisions, that they make the right ones, and we pray for those who are being affected by those decisions, because it could be very, very, very, very unfortunate for them. So, lamanda, we're going to switch gears now and talk about Topeka Rescue Mission in particular, and one of the things that, for nearly three years now, you have been working with a board of directors which is not just a rubber stamp. Here you go, lamanda, go for it. That was the way it was when I was here. They just rubber stamped everything you know.
Speaker 3:So.
Speaker 2:I've never had an issue, not, so. These are important people for you to be able to share your vision with, to share just like what you shared with us, and then come up with a official decision from that governing body about what's to be done. So, um, amanda, talk about, uh, the importance of the board to you and, uh, what you've learned in this last three years.
Speaker 3:So you know, I think the um, the easiest way to say is I have eight bosses, right, Um and so sometimes it's hard enough to have one, but then when you multiply that by a lot, it could be something that's hard.
Speaker 3:However, I am truly blessed by quote unquote my bosses, and not because everything is, you know, always doves and peace, but I have board members that their characters outside of these board meetings are stellar.
Speaker 3:They are authentic. They are people who have been born again and understand that, and for the most part, they relate so much to our cause, those we serve, the struggle, all of that. And so I love how reflective our board is, because sometimes the ideas or even the struggles that we're facing, I never have to worry about bringing it to the board and go, man, they're not going to understand this or they're not going to be able to relate to this because their hearts are so driven by what we do. And so it's been a learning curve for me, and it still is. I just told them one or two board meetings ago I'm like I'm still new at this. I'm trying to figure out what you guys want to know, what you just trust me to lead, and all of that. So we have some growing pains every now and then where I'm like I'm probably telling them way too, much and they're just like we trust you do your job.
Speaker 3:And then the other thing is I'm always like, oh shoot, I forgot to tell them that and how did I forget to tell them that? So you know, it's this dance that we learn. But I, honestly, am so thankful for my board, and I'm what I'm most thankful for is they're not just a yes board. They ask me questions, they want to know. Sometimes we table things to pray in process and I appreciate just the genuineness of our board members. But I think I also need to be honest and say we all joke that every time we leave a board meeting we all need ibuprofen because it's a lot right, but they're great people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, speaking of eight bosses, one of them is here today, your newest board member, caleb Chalkley. Welcome to our podcast here today. Our community, our mission. Thanks for having me. So, yeah, thank you for waiting on all this for us to unpack, to get to you today. Caleb, you know I woke up this morning getting out of bed feeling kind of old.
Speaker 2:That's what happens, but I really feel old now after getting a chance. I met you a couple of months ago at the Night of Praise, briefly, and I got to thinking about your name, chalkley, and I asked you the question today, do you know a Jeff Chalkley? And you said yeah, that's my dad. And I mentioned an Angie and that's your aunt, and I was their youth pastor, your dad's youth pastor, amanda. You kind of kid me all the time.
Speaker 2:I do. I told you, yeah, I'm an old goat or something like that. So here we got this kid over here. He's a board member at Speaker Rescue Mission and I was his dad and his aunt's youth pastor. Now, keep in mind, I was a kid myself at the time of 20, 21 years old, okay so anyway, I'll stay a kid, that's right, Caleb, welcome again to this program.
Speaker 2:You you're a new board member. I want to talk about that, but you're also the Topeka fire department firefighter, and so how long have you been on the Topeka fire department?
Speaker 4:I've been at TFD since 2020, pretty much right in the heat of COVID, I think it was April was my hire date.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, but that wasn't your first service in firefighting. You also served somewhere else before that.
Speaker 4:Yep, I started the whole career in 2014 at Silver Lake Fire as a volunteer slash part-time guy and then, after I got my EMT, I worked on an ambulance for five years and a mix between Riley County and Potts County.
Speaker 2:So you are kind of a local kid, so to speak, and you're a Silver Lake Eagle graduate Eagles and that's a pretty big rivalry Rossville, silver Lake, the whole thing there. So we'll get into that right now, but anyway, so you came on in 2020. Pandemic came over to Topeka. You've been serving here since that time, which we appreciate. The fire department I mean goodness, their first response between AMR fire department coming in. Sometimes one gets here before the other, but that's always a joint effort, whether it's in shelter, on the streets or whatever. And and so, um, caleb, um, how did you find out about Topeka rescue mission? Um, and then what, uh, what got you directed towards being a board member?
Speaker 4:Oh man. So to start, I'm going to start a ways back, okay, so obviously Can't go too far back. Right. So obviously I knew that Topeka Rescue Mission was here since I was a child.
Speaker 2:My pastor when I was growing up worked at DRM for a while. Darren Johnson pastor.
Speaker 4:Silver Lake Baptist. Yep, yep. So I heard about it, knew about it, but when I got on the fire department, the city of Zbika, as you know, is very, very busy, right. So I think last year we had maybe 27,000 calls, wow. So there comes a point, or there came a point for me as a Christian, where I had burnout for I don't want to say for the job, but to be blunt homelessness, burnout about homelessness, burnout for running calls, running calls for homelessness.
Speaker 4:So at the time I was working in Central Topeka at Station 4, and, man, I could just you get woke up in the middle of the night for your sixth call or whatever, and it's something that I don't see as an emergency, and so I'm immediately bitter, I get in the truck, I'm mad the whole way there. I get there, I have to care for this person with compassion, while I not an ounce of me, if I'm being honest wants to. So I could feel that and again, as a Christian, I knew wholeheartedly every single person I deal with in my line of work, or any line of work, is made in the image of God, deserving of love, respect, compassion. And it just kind of hit a wall where I was like, dude, I'm like an angry person for selfish reasons, like for essentially having to do my job right, but so I kind of just there was a lot of stuff that happened all at once, but one of the first things that happened was I just started praying.
Speaker 4:I would say for months I was just praying for eyes to see people the way God sees them and a heart to break for what breaks is. And while I was doing that, I also started reading one proverb every day. I don't remember who turned me on to it, but there's 31. So it's perfect to just go through a month reading a proverb every day and, man, I was like mind blown immediately with just how much there is in Proverbs about serving the poor or the less fortunate, and one verse that hit me in particular I think you have your Bible open Like Proverbs 21.
Speaker 4:You're not going to believe it, but I'm in Proverbs 21, 13, I think, is what it is.
Speaker 2:What a coincidence.
Speaker 3:Because I had something I wanted to share, and I never do that but 21, 13. The one who shuts his ears to the cry of the poor will himself also call out and not be answered.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I read that Okay.
Speaker 2:And I'm like oh right, yeah, richard, yeah, so I read that.
Speaker 4:Okay, and I'm like right and so, um, those are not my words, right. Right, that's, that's the text speaking, not me. So it hit me really hard. And then one of the things that really hit me the hardest, that I would say kind of changed my whole view on homelessness, was I think it was springtime because it was super cold, but not cold enough to snow. It was raining and we ran a call for like a spider bite or something. And again, every day I'm still praying these same prayers and we ran this call for a spider bite.
Speaker 4:We get to this house, lady runs out out. She's like it's not me, it's over there by the dumpster. So we go to the dumpster and there's a guy laying under a tarp soaking wet and he's screaming in pain. And the first thing I notice is that he's screaming for his mom. This guy's probably mid-60s and, uh, I don't know, maybe weighed 70 pounds, like he was in rough, rough shape, and he was crying for his mom continuously. That's all. He hardly would answer a question because he's just screaming. And I'm like man, this dude is in one of the lowest places one could be and his single instinct is to cry for his mom like a, like a motherly. He's longing for a motherly love, right, and so, while sitting there talking to him, it was a situation where we were waiting on amr for a very long time, um, and we're kind of our hands are kind of tied at that point, right like we can't.
Speaker 4:We can't transport, but you're not medevac and so sitting there in the cold I don't want to be in the cold either so I'm like this dude must be. I mean again, he just won't stop screaming, won't stop screaming, soaking wet. And after it caught my eye that this guy is crying for his mom at 60-something years old. He has obviously no shelter. He's got a tarp that's doing nothing for him. He's laying in a puddle. Essentially he had like a can of beans or something, maybe with a knife, that he had tried to open, pretty unsuccessfully. He's hungry and can't get to the food. And then next to that was a porn magazine.
Speaker 4:And I remember thinking just how evident for me, how evident the battle of the spiritual realm. I guess this guy, who many people would say has nothing, is that pretty much the lowest spot a human could be and crying for his mom still has satan, still has this grip on him like no food, no shelter, this grip on him Like no food, no shelter. Yet this bondage is still just clinging and I was like wrecked and I remember tearing up on the call, which is insane. I mean I've run thousands of calls over the last 10 years and many really horrible horror movie type things, and I've never teared up on a call like this and I remember immediately being like God, do not answer this prayer, like this Cause that's what it was. I was like oh, this is God's like. Oh yeah, you know that you, that prayer you've been asking. Here it is, buddy, here it is.
Speaker 2:But not right now, not this way. I don't have time to be crying.
Speaker 4:I don't do this, and so that was like the kickstart for me and I just kept navigating through the Proverbs and I read a book at the time called Under the Overpass, by something Yankowski I think. Yeah, I read him, great book and some of the most alarming. Essentially, the story of the book is this guy wanted to bring awareness to homelessness and essentially started living on the street. He did have kind of a board of people that would like pray for him. Him and another guy did this. He went out and hit the streets yeah, went to the underpasses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4:Yep, essentially a social experiment, and some of the most alarming things in that book was how he was treated not by people but by the church. That's right. And um, romans talks about how nobody's without excuse right when it comes to God. And um, I think, in the realm of loving people, it is insane to see how many of us Christians punt on it. We're offered opportunities every single day that God places in front of our face to love the person next to us, whether it's a homeless guy or the guy at the grocery store, whatever, and we punt. And this is me, this is just the church as a whole and and I remember obviously I'm not saying everybody like people do awesome at this. We have people like lamanda in the world that are just rock stars, but I just these things were just hitting me like bricks and every single time I was like thanks God.
Speaker 2:Like well, why are we doing this? I was better off when I was mad.
Speaker 4:That's right, and so I I kind of changed my tone from being burnout to you know what. God's given me these opportunities, rather than being mad every single time I run a call for a homeless person or a brush fire, because I worked at station two for a while, which is one of the two brush trucks in the city, so we'd go put out campfires quite a bit. That a lot of them, never mind that we I just changed my perspective of how I saw the situation. Rather than feeling the burnout, seeing it as an opportunity to like just see that person, even if it's literally eye contact, I feel like is an insane.
Speaker 2:Kayla, what was frustrating you about them before you had this kind of Just selfishness Battle yourself? Encounter of just selfishness battle yourself encounter.
Speaker 2:I mean, were you like the guy that, um, that was crying for his mom and and, uh, before this encounter that God was kind of having you you go through to to get you where you are today? What would? What was frustrating you about this? I mean, cause I think this is where a lot of people probably are. They're frustrated with what they see. You were right there amongst them. You're here in fire station, you're a job, and I think this is what kind of goes into how I found out about the board.
Speaker 4:But I was telling Greg Armbruster I mean he's the vice president of the board about. I think homelessness is one of the most complex problems in our society that we continuously throw the most simplistic answers at.
Speaker 2:That's well put.
Speaker 4:And so get a job is a very common, simplistic answer, right, but okay, how many variables have to line up perfectly for somebody to get a job?
Speaker 4:okay, how many variables have to line up perfectly for somebody to get a job. First of all, I have no idea the person I'm screaming at to get a job. Where is their mental capacity at? Chances are there's plenty of homeless people who the issue is so deep that a job isn't even in the conversation yet. Like the thought of a career is insane. Um, so for me, that's just where my that's I guess that would have been.
Speaker 4:My irritation was like these people are just so like just go get a job and we wouldn't be here, and so I guess, to answer your question in a long roundabout way, that would be. That would be. It is that I was just oversimplified.
Speaker 2:A very complex situation is what we, what we tend to do when we don't understand what we're looking at Exactly, so we get frustrated with it because it doesn't change, it doesn't fix itself. You can't ordinance your way out of this, you can't hope your way out of this, you can't be mad your way out of this as a community. So we have to take a deep dive. But it sounds like for you, because of your faith, because of your relationship with Christ, this wasn't something that was probably going to come naturally. Something happened with you, as you are kind of coming under conviction to some degree. Oh, no doubt. And like maybe I need to look at this a little bit differently. And was it that night that things started really gelling, with the man who was crying and asking for his mom and that battle? Did that really begin the trajectory you're on now?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that was. There was definitely a switch flipped that night and I remember asking that guy well why don't you just go to the mission, like there's a great resource? And he said that. I think he said he had a sex crime at the time, which I didn't know what that was, and he could have peed in public.
Speaker 3:Right, you just never know, or whatever the case is, they could look very different.
Speaker 4:So the switch flipped for sure at that time. The switch flipped for sure at that time, and then just continuous prayer of God just being like, yeah, man, like, I guess, just almost convictions being answered or like ideas that I already had or, somewhat in the depth of my soul, thought or believed God was just confirming them.
Speaker 3:For me it's time to think differently. These are humans.
Speaker 4:Yes, show and tell with a lot of show. Now, exactly, and I don't remember what I was going to say.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for sharing that. I mean, that's so transparent and I think that there are many people who are part of what's called the body of Christ. You were raised in church. You've been around this a lot. You exposed to the Bible, you exposed to church. I'm sure that you have heard Matthew 25 over and over and over again, and on and on and on, and it was the first time you ever heard a proverb before, but it was really clicking with you right now because you were kind of forced into dealing with it. Yep, you're going to deal with it one way or the other. You're going to deal with it the way you had been dealing with it, by frustration, or you're going to say God, how do I look at this frustration differently? How do I see this frustration? And you chose to be vulnerable before the Lord? Yeah, and he made you real vulnerable, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. I could choose to be bitter every single day for the rest of my life if I wanted to, but that's not going to fix anything. That wasn't working for you, was it yeah?
Speaker 2:And so I think, LaManda, I think a lot of people what they do is that, just like Caleb was, get a job, get over it, get out of my way is that that's an easy path to take on this, and so, by and large, they'll call a council member, whatever, and get them out of my way. I don't want to see it anymore and it doesn't get out of the way it doesn't. And so, as a community, just like Caleb not just like Caleb, because he's definitely on the front lines of this, but we're being faced and forced to deal with this in a way that isn't going away and is making us either better or bitter in this regard, and so there's such a spotlight on this. Well, Caleb, you came on the board. Was that part of? I want to know more, I want to serve more? What was the reason for saying yes to Topeka Rescue Mission Board?
Speaker 4:Yeah, a combination. I don't remember. I was in a Bible study with Greg Armbruster, like I mentioned, and we were eating at Hanover Pancake House and somehow homelessness got brought up and I went on a hardcore rant about how I think it's insane, how it's kind of what I just said. We just think that there's so many quick fixes for this massive issue. And he said you sound like you'd be a good fit for the board. And I, who really understood the gospel in 2018, up until that point, I had read one book in my entire life so he said you sound like a good fit for the board. And I said first of all, I don't know what a board is. Second of all, he also I think he said the name. I think he used the word directors too.
Speaker 4:So, board of directors and I'm like if you mentioned that to any of my teachers in the past, they'd have a stroke and I'm like I don't know what that means, but sure. And so he connected me with Lamanda. I met with her, kind of shared my heart and she opened my eyes to so many things that the mission does that nobody knows about, and that's one awesome thing that's been cool for me to take to work is talking about um, the career readiness program for example, or yes, or rehousing, like these things are not the things.
Speaker 4:For whatever reason, we love bad news and so, for whatever reason these things aren't preached about the rescue mission, like for whatever reason you can talk about the hundreds of insane transformations and fresh starts that people have, and for whatever reason, they get bypass and then we focus on the next problem. Yeah, and so until we get sick and tired of the next problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, then we'll find another one, like somebody did.
Speaker 4:So, uh, talked with her and she invited me to a board meeting and she pitched it as you're just going to come kind of tell these people your share, your testimony, tell them why you want to be here, and I was like cool, didn't think anything of it day of show up to the meeting. There's cops in the room, so I'm like great what are we doing in my defense?
Speaker 4:I didn't know about that part either but no, then LaManda's presented with an award and everybody's crying and I'm like man, I got to follow this. I'm like this is brutal. And then LaManda says so I told Caleb I'm going to give him like 20 to 30 minutes to share and I'm like I am not prepared for this at all. I'm expecting like a two minute. My name's Caleb, hey type of thing.
Speaker 3:And I set him right next to me. I was like you're going to do fine. I'm right here, within reaching distance.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was wild times. How long has that been now? Oh gosh, I don't know. A few months. It's really funny.
Speaker 3:I don't even the end of last summer.
Speaker 2:So I know you were on board a night of praise, however long ago that's been before that, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think it was July. That sounds right. I think it was July and met with them the month before. Yeah, yeah that sounds right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so two questions, one for you, one for Lamont. What have you learned since you've been in this position on the board, which your teachers would have never pictured you doing? What have you learned?
Speaker 4:What's different about Caleb Chalkley today? So what I've learned? That's a really big, broad question because in however many months that's been, it's kind of like drinking out of a fire hose. I still go into meetings and I'm like what is that? I think you might know what that would mean. I like write down cause I got a check with the man.
Speaker 2:It's like drinking out of a fire hose. That's a.
Speaker 3:I'm like it's okay, fred, I got your back, Just ask the question, it's okay.
Speaker 2:So you're still, it's still a big learning curve.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but I think the biggest things is just how massive the mission really is and it's a well-oiled machine and people might disagree with that, but it's the people that see the things that they want to see. For example, the problems.
Speaker 4:It's the ones who want to ignore or look into absolutely nothing on the amazing things that have happened, that continue to happen, and reconnected with a family member from however many years ago, or somebody that God transformed years and years and years go by through the mission that now has this awesome success story I guess, for lack of a better term and so I think just learning just how important the mission is has been a huge thing and just how I mean it's I can't describe how big it is.
Speaker 2:So your your prayer to the Lord. He begins to open your eyes. You're in a strategic place on the ground seeing these situations. He touches your heart in a way that you probably weren't too cool with. But you're here now. What do you think God is doing with you? Not only going from a street experience that you had that began to change your direction to being where you are on TRM board. What does that say about God in your life?
Speaker 4:That he's constantly working. True, and the grace is for the journey, which I think is everybody's story. The same grace that I have is the same grace that you and the next guy needs.
Speaker 4:And just to see a mindset change that I'm not working on, like I'm not actively, like I've got to change my mindset. It's it's very clearly God changing it, cause I'm not having to work for it, right, right, it's just you gotta be willing to go with the flow, though, right, yeah, yeah, and it's much better to just not fight God, cause he seems to be a little stronger than me, because he seems to be a little stronger than me. And so, yeah, I think, just seeing how active he is in changing my mindset, and just it seems like there's new truths or information revealed daily that's just like wow, that is insane.
Speaker 2:Amanda, what's it mean to have a board member like Caleb on the team?
Speaker 3:It's a full time job. No, I'm joking.
Speaker 4:She's like I was hoping he'd leave 20 minutes ago. That's right.
Speaker 3:No, you know, I know it sounds cliche, but just even listening to him talk and thinking back to our first time of meeting and stuff, I would just say that it is I don't know how else to say it, other than it is a blessing. Like when I think of being blessed, it's stuff that's like so undeserving, something that doesn't make sense, something that provides us so much reassurance or joy and all of that. And that's Caleb. I am blessed to have his mentality and you know he jokes with me all the time, whether it's we're going over the finances piece or whatever, because he has all these questions. But that stuff is learned by all of us, right, I didn't know how to do all of that when I was learning it from you.
Speaker 3:And sometimes society wise, we put such an emphasis on the resume, the experience, the knowledge and all those things and and those things are. There's nothing wrong with it, but in this line of work I think there absolutely is. If we put more weight on that, then we do the heart and um. So I love so many things about Caleb, but what I love most is he fully recognizes this sanctification process that he's on. He's so honest with the other just magnitude. You know we talked about TRN being massive. It is. And when you talk about this massiveness, he's one eighth of the person that's governing it. So I understand his learning curve on that and as CEO I want to help him with that. I'm still learning some of it. But what's incredible about him is him understanding the sanctification process of like man. I went from this piece where I was burned out and thought this of them and now I'm here. But I know my understanding is still going to be deeper a year from now.
Speaker 3:And what's incredible about him is when I'm talking about stories of like hey, just a heads up, I want to let the board know, because there's some names that the board knows people by names. That's how involved my board is, right, and so sometimes I tell them I know you've heard me talk a lot about so-and-so. I want to let you know they went into treatment, he gets it. And then there's sometimes where I'm able to say we're just not there yet.
Speaker 3:I had a board member who has worked so many shifts at the warming centers that he knew one of the females from three warming centers ago and she wasn't in this one to one of the females from three warming centers ago and she wasn't in this one and he brought that up, not this last board meeting, but the board meeting before that, and I was able to unpack this woman's story right and this is why you didn't see her. She's in the midst of, probably, domestic violence and she's in this and she's in this and so she's with this group of men now and I was able to share that with the board and just looking at their level of empathy and this level of honestly sadness, right, like oh, we hate that for her. That brings me back to what's incredible about Caleb, and not just him, but all of them.
Speaker 3:They see their own sanctification process and they value it. But then they understand others and to me that is so invaluable as a CEO because I know I can come to them about a program, an initiative or a person that's taking a long time to get there right or that is on their own journey, or an initiative that I'm like please trust me, we're not seeing the outcomes yet, but I know it's coming right. We just have to revise this or we're having to make revisions and they get it. And Caleb, I think, is a big leader right now for our board and his transparency that we better continue to be empathetic on people as they are in the process of their own change If they haven't quote unquote reached it yet. Because if you look at all of us, regardless of how mature we are in our faith or whatever, we don't quote unquote reach it until we're made whole again.
Speaker 3:And Caleb applies his own. He calls it ignorance a lot. I'm just ignorant with this, could you help me with this? But he applies that and it's turned into this beautiful empathy and passion and advocacy for others. And it's because of people like Caleb that the margin lessens and the gap lessens because he could be talking about his professionalism, all the incredible stuff that he and his amazing wife do, like he could be putting their lives on a pedestal. And I continually see Caleb lessen and lessen and and lesson himself, to be able to get to a place where he fully, as much as possible, understands the hurt of what our people experience. And to me that is invaluable as a CEO to have that as a board member.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know, we, in any kind of work and social services or just in general in society, we tend to fall back to the need for strategy. How are we going to make this work? How are we going to make that work? How are we going to get the money for this? How are we going to create this? And sometimes we lose the heart of the matter and strategy takes over heart. And so, um, you have to do strategy, you have to budget, you have to um, are we going to fix this? Are we going to build this? Are we going to address homelessness this way or whatever it is? Are we going to feed more people? We're going to feed less people? On and on and on. But when we bring the heart into, it is the reason and the foundation for it. Um, then it gives us the motivation to do it the very best that we can.
Speaker 2:And, caleb, I think and I agree with LaManda, having been involved with boards and the Topeka Rescue Mission board for a very long time while you're in the learning curve still, everybody's learning from you as well, because what you're doing is bringing the authentic, raw heart of somebody who had an encounter with Christ in a place that you weren't expecting about, an assignment that you other board members have staff members, volunteers, topeka Rescue Mission and hopefully more and more people in the community to love our neighbor as ourself, right where they are, without judgment, without wanting it just to go away.
Speaker 2:And so I've not heard your testimony before. I'm blessed to visualize what you experienced and the position that you've been in as a firefighter and to be there and God still flourishing what you said, yes to what you were hungry for. I want to know your way, god. And if we try to white knuckle this thing and just do it strategically, it won't get done. But if we do it with the heart, the motivation behind it, people who are listening right now you may listen to this podcast about strategy and what's the latest thing going on at the mission and who's the guest and who you're talking to and those kind of things. But pray to the Lord that he will show you his heart in everything that's being done here, We've got a great many things happening at Topeka Rescue Mission.
Speaker 2:You're still learning them, caleb. It'll take a while to really learn all those incredible things that God has put together and people have said yes to, but if we avoid the hard part which is the hard part the hard part is the hard part then we will never get where we need to go. Lamanda, you got your finger on your Bible right now.
Speaker 3:I do. I think this might be the first time I've ever done this on a podcast, because I think sometimes there can be there can just be issues, right, if we just throw scripture out there and without going into context and all of that. But this morning I felt very led to bring my Bible for the podcast. I was kind of like God, what are you doing? Because normally we would need a whole podcast to explain scripture so that we make sure we're not taking it out of context. But with many counselors there is deliverance. And I had a little footnote in my. This is kind of.
Speaker 3:I have two different Bibles that I go back and forth. One is a leadership Bible that I was blessed with by the board when I came on, and then I also have one that's about women leadership, so that we really understand there's beauty in submission, but also we have to walk in what God's called us to do. And so this is the woman's Bible. But the footnote on here says the phrase many counselors is actually, in this context, considered an advisor, a deliberator or a person considering action and in purpose, implying wisdom, reflection and skill. So again, the Proverbs without guidance, a people will fall. But with many counselors, there's deliverance, and now that God's revealed that to me, I'm like how fitting is that that? That really should describe the Topeka Rush Commission Board of Directors right, they are a group of counselors when we think they've got to have the heart. Exactly what you just said implies this proverb we have to have the heart, we have to be doing what the Lord's called us to do, but that also comes in action. It also comes in purpose and it comes in wisdom and skill. Those don't have to be separate, and this proverb shows that.
Speaker 3:But I also think that it is a reminder for all of us in leadership, in whatever position government, other nonprofits, businesses, churches that if we are leaders, whether we are in ministry or not, and even if it's more secular, if we call ourselves Christians, we have got to find the balance of not denying the truth and what God's calling us to do, to do the position, and I think that is something I recognize. I'm blessed to be able to be as courageous in my faith because I am a leader in a ministry, and so I recognize that. But the other side of it is there were times that I wasn't in a ministry and God still called me to walk boldly in my faith, regardless of what position he allowed me to be in, and so I hope that this is a reminder to anybody in our community that is a believer who is also a leader that if we are not guiding and not a guiding talk based on what God has called us to do, in those principles, people will fall. And that's on us, because too much has been given, much is expected, but the other side of it is where there is many counselors it doesn't say one, it doesn't say the. Where there are many, many advisors, many people that are in deliberation, many people that are using wisdom. What will happen? There is deliverance, and so I think we can use that as a practical level, which is what God wanted us to take away these truths right.
Speaker 3:These aren't scriptures, just biblical things that happened a long time ago, especially when you're in the book of Proverbs, there's deliverance. So what could this look like? It could be tied to encampments, it could be tied to housing, it could be tied to all these breakthroughs that our community could come deliverance. But you better believe that I don't care if we're in a secular world or a ministry world, if we are a Christian and we're a believer. This also tells us where we are and if we're doing what we're supposed to, there's deliverance. These encampments, all of these things are controversial and all of that. This also is a spiritual warfare, and this is an opportunity for us to bring kingdom, difference on this earth that we've been given. And so I love that Proverbs, I'm convicted by it, I'm challenged by it and I'm also encouraged that there is hope. If we do, regardless of our position, what God's called us to do and we act as these counselors, there will be deliverance. If we don't, and there is not guidance of those that are called into leadership, people will fall.
Speaker 2:Yes and amen. You brought your Bible and preached today, so that was good. Lamanda, thank you, I think what we've heard today and, caleb, thank you so much for again your transparency, just laying it on the line. I think that people today who have listened to what you've said are going to really be thinking about what they need to be talking to God about, and I know me as well just to say be talking to God about, and I know me as well just to say, god, am I being authentic with you and show me your heart? And so, as we've said, the hard part is the heart part. We can do a lot of really good things, but what is the heart of God? And so thank you for saying yes out there on the street, thank you for saying yes to the board of directors to pick a rescue mission, and I know that you're pretty excited about more yeses to come yeah, yeah, so anything last you would like to say for our listeners today.
Speaker 4:I don't know, not really, I guess okay, I've been man I was.
Speaker 4:When she was talking previously, I was thinking about just for me and my faith and just kind of navigating this conversation. I have been a complete schmuck in the past and I will continue to do schmuck things in the future, and what has been so cool for me is just the lens of grace has changed for me. So in a past of shame and guilt, anytime I messed up, it is completely 180 to where. Now, when I mess up, which we all will continue to mess up throughout this life, it opens my eyes to just how awesome his grace is. Rather than leading me deeper into shame and guilt, it pushes me closer to him, just seeing how incredible his grace is and how he continues to beManda.
Speaker 4:But there's like this child's quote. That's like it's like an illustration of like Jesus versus religion and the religion. One says I screwed up. I hope my dad doesn't find out, and Christianity is I screwed up. I need to go talk to my dad. And man, that's just how. To me, that's just the lens of grace and just seeing how massive it is and how necessary it is for me and as well as the next guy.
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, thank you for going to your dad and talking to him and being willing to say, yes, you're a good father in heaven. So if you are listening today and you're a schmuck, you're in a great spot.
Speaker 4:Child of God that does schmuck things, because God can use schmucks If you don't recognize that you're a schmuck.
Speaker 2:you need to humble yourself and realize that God uses schmucks. We have to look that up in our next time to identify what the definition of schmuck is. We may be trying to blank out a lot of things here, Josh. I hope not, but anyway, it's all about humbling ourselves. Amanda, thank you for sharing your passion, your heart.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being in the middle of the storm here. Thank you for leading the way, and thank you for recognizing a multitude of counselors is part of what this is all about. You may be a part of the multitude of counselors today, wherever you are listening to this podcast, whether it's in your church, your neighborhood, your place of work, whatever the case might be, god's got a heart for Topeka Kansas. He's got a heart for those who suffer. He's got a heart for you, and so just know that, in spite of schmuckism, god loves us all. Thank you for listening to our community, our mission. If you'd like more information about the Topeka Rescue Mission, you could go to trmonlineorg. That's trmonlineorg. Thank you for listening today.